Closed Caption Log, Council Worksession
Wednesday, February 27, 2002

Note: Since these log files are derived from the Closed Captions created during the Channel 6 live cablecasts, there are occasional spelling and grammatical errors. These Closed Caption logs are not official records of Council Meetings and cannot be relied on for official purposes. For official records or transcripts, please contact the City Clerk at (512) 974-2210.

MAYOR GARCIA: THERE BEING A QUORUM OF THE COUNCIL IN THE ROOM, I'M GOING TO CALL BACK TO ORDER THE — THE WORK SESSION OF THE AUSTIN CITY COUNCIL. AND ANNOUNCE FIRST THAT WE HAVE CONCLUDED THE EXECUTIVE SESSION AND NO DECISIONS WERE MADE. THAT EXECUTIVE SESSION WAS PRIVATE CONSULTATION WITH OUR ATTORNEY UNDER SECTION 551.071. AND THAT WAS TO DISCUSS LEGAL ISSUES RELATED TO THE PROPOSED CHARTER AMENDMENTS OF THE POLICE MONITOR AND POLICE PERSONNEL RECORDS. NOW WE ARE GOING INTO THE BRIEFINGS. AND THE FIRST BRIEFING IS TO DISCUSS A CHARTER AMENDMENT TO BE PLACED ON THE MAY 4TH, 2002, BALLOT TO CHANGE THE TERMS AND METHOD OF ELECTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL FROM ELECTION AT LARGE TO A METHOD INCLUDING THE ELECTION OF MEMBERS FROM GEOGRAPHICAL DISTRICTS OR TO A METHOD COMBINING AT LARGE AND DISTRICT ELECTIONS. MR. CITY MANAGER?

HOW WOULD WE LIKE TO START? RYAN?

MAYOR GARCIA: I THINK WITH MR. ROBINSON, EXPLAINING, YOU KNOW, HOW A — HOW A SYSTEM, HOW ELECTING COUNCILMEMBERS BY DISTRICTS, COULD WORK. AND I THINK HE HAS BEEN DOING SOME WORK IN THAT AREA. MR. ROBINSON, WELCOME, SIR. AND I THINK YOU HAVE LOOKED AT SOME CONFIGURATIONS AND I THINK IF YOU COULD EXPLAIN THE WORK THAT YOU HAVE BEEN DOING, I THINK SOME OF THE MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL AND OTHER PEOPLE HAVE ASKED YOU TO LOOK AT CERTAIN SYSTEMS, CERTAIN CONFIGURATIONS THAT COULD BE CONSIDERED. SO IF YOU WANTED TO TALK ABOUT THAT AND EXPLAIN SOME OF THE WORK THAT YOU HAVE BEEN DOING AND THEN THE COUNCILMEMBERS, I'M SURE, WOULD HAVE QUESTIONS.

THE — WHAT HAS NOW BEEN ALMOST ABOUT A SIX WEEK PROCESS HAS RESULTED IN THE CONSTRUCTION OF SEVERAL SCENARIOS.

MAYOR GARCIA: EXCUSE ME JUST A SECOND. IS THE CHAIRMAN OF THE CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION OR THE REPRESENTATIVE HERE? IF YOU COULD ALSO JOIN US. AT THE TABLE. WE EVEN HAVE A MIC FOR YOU. SINCE I DON'T KNOW YOU PENALTY THAT WELL I COULD GIVE US YOUR NAME, THE REST OF THE COUNCILMEMBERS KNOW YOU VERY WELL BECAUSE THEY HAVE WORKED WITH YOU A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN I HAVE.

I'M STEVEN JALINOSKY, BOBBY BARKER OUR CHAIR COULDN'T BE HERE, ASKED ME TO COME.

MAYOR GARCIA: SHE E-MAILED US YESTERDAY. GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE. I THINK SHE WILL BE WITH US TOMORROW.

I THINK SO.

MAYOR GARCIA: OKAY, WELL, LET ME ASK YOU, DO YOU HAVE ANY OPENING COMMENTS? OR MR. ROBINSON.

NO, I DON'T.

MAYOR GARCIA: OKAY. I THINK THAT YOU HAVE ALREADY MADE SEVERAL PRESENTATIONS TO THE COUNCIL. BACK TO YOU.

STAFF HAS COMPLETED THE CONSTRUCTION OF SEVERAL SCENARIO GOES AND TO DATE WE HAVE — FOUR DISTRICT SCENARIO, TWO FIVE-MEMBER SCENARIOS, A SIX, SEVEN AND EIGHT, NINE, TWO TENS, A 12 AND A 14. AND THROUGHOUT THAT ENTIRE PROCESS, AND I HAVE A FEW OF THE MAPS AROUND AND A FULL SWEAT AVAILABLE FOR DISTRIBUTION, BOTH IN SMALL COPY MAP AND THEN LARGE MAPS. WE HAVE FOLLOWED A CONSISTENT METHODOLOGY WHICH HAS BEEN TO — TO CREATE THE MINORITY DISTRICTS FIRST. MAXIMIZE THE PERCENTAGE WITHIN THAT DISTRICT, AND THEN MOVE ON INTO THE REMAINDER OF THE CITY AT WHICH POINT WE USED TRADITIONAL REDISTRICTING CRITERIA. THINGS LIKE ATTEMPTING TO KEEP COMMUNITIES OF INTEREST INTACT; FOLLOWING OPERATIVE GEOGRAPHY LIKE RESPECTING SCHOOL DISTRICT LINES, BUT BECAUSE OF OUR OVERRIDING METHODOLOGY OF BUILDING UP THE MINORITY DISTRICTS FIRST, THERE IS VERY MUCH A RIPPLE EFFECT ACROSS THE REMAINDER OF THE CITY. TO WHERE IN SOME CASES COMMUNITIES OF INTEREST ARE — ARE NOT KEPT TOGETHER. BUT THROUGHOUT EACH SCENARIO, WITH — WITH JUST A COUPLE OF EXCEPTIONS, THAT'S BEEN OUR METHODOLOGY. AND IT'S THE — WE HAVE TO DRAW THE MAP TO GET THE NUMBERS. AND BY THE NUMBERS, THE DEMOGRAPHIC PROFILE UNDERNEATH EACH MAP. WE HAD ORIGINALLY BEEN MOTIVATED TO DO THE FIRST SET OF SCENARIOS TO ANSWER A QUESTION THAT THE — THAT THE CHARTER REVISION COMMITTEE OR THE FIRST INCARNATION AND THE SECOND ASKED US, WHICH WAS BASICALLY HOW MANY DISTRICTS DO YOU HAVE TO DRAW BEFORE YOU CAN CREATE AN AFRICAN AMERICAN DISTRICT; THAT IS AT LEAST 50 PERCENT. WE CHOSE THAT, MR. STEINER CAN SPEAK ON THIS IN MUCH MORE DEPTH THAN I CAN, WE CHOSE THAT AS A TARGET. NOT THAT THAT IS THE ABSOLUTE TARGET TO CHASE. BUT IT WAS A QUESTION THAT WE WANTED TO KNOW THE ANSWER TO. BECAUSE THE — THE LANDSCAPE OF AUSTIN'S AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY HAS CHANGED DRAMATICALLY. OVER THE DECADES, BUT ESPECIALLY OVER THE '9 0'S. WHAT WE FOUND WAS WE HAD TO CREATE 14 DISTRICTS IN ORDER TO BUILD AN AFRICAN AMERICAN DISTRICT THAT WAS AT LEAST 50%. YOU HAVE TO KEEP DIALING UP THE NUMBER OF SEATS BECAUSE THE POPULATION IN EACH DISTRICT MUST BE WITHIN A REASONABLE BALANCE. THE COMMITTEE HERE RECOMMENDED TO STAY WITHIN 5% BALANCE. WE LET OURSELVES HAVE A 10% BALANCE. WHICH GIVES US A LITTLE BIT MORE LEEWAY. WE — WE BASICALLY CAME AWAY FROM THAT EXERCISE WITH — WITH THIS SET OF MAPS AND A SET OF DEMOGRAPHIC PROFILES. WAS — DOES THAT GET IT, TO YOUR QUESTION, MAYOR?

MAYOR GARCIA: SURE, SURE. LET ME SEE IF THERE'S ANY QUESTIONS FROM THE COUNCILMEMBERS. MAYBE A QUESTION FOR YOU, MR. JALINOWSKY. I THINK THE SECOND COMMITTEE WAS CONSISTENT WITH THE FIRST ONE IN THAT THEY RECOMMEND LIKE, WHAT, A 10-1 WITH SOME GROWTH?

IT WAS — YOUR HONOR, I THINK IT WAS ONE — OBVIOUSLY ONE MAYOR, 10 COUNCILMEMBERS, INCREASING TO 12 WHEN THE POPULATION INCREASED A PARTICULAR AMOUNT ABOVE THE 2000 CENSUS. ACTUALLY, I WOULD HAVE TO PULL IT OUT TO REMEMBER WHAT THAT NUMBER WAS. BUT THERE WAS A TRIGGER THERE.

MAYOR GARCIA: AND IN YOUR DISCUSSION WITH REGARD TO MIXED SYSTEMS, I THINK THE VOTE WAS NARROW AND THE — ON THE COMMISSION?

THIS COMMISSION —

MAYOR GARCIA: [INAUDIBLE]

WELL, THIS COMMISSION FELT THAT IT — THAT IT DID NOT HAVE, MAYBE I SHOULD READ THE EXACT LANGUAGE TO BE TRUE TO THE COMMISSION STATEMENT, BUT FELT THAT IT COULDN'T SECOND-GUESS WHAT THE PRIOR COMMISSION HAD DONE BECAUSE WE HAD NO GREATER INFORMATION AND LESS TIME THAN THEY HAD.

MAYOR GARCIA: OKAY. COUNCILMEMBERS, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR MR. JALINOWSKI OR MR. RYAN?

SLUSHER: I DO.

MAYOR GARCIA: COUNCILMEMBER SLUSHER/YOU SAID YOU COULDN'T GUESS THE PREVIOUS COMMISSION, BUT YOU DID SPEND SOME TIME LOOKING AT THE SYSTEM, RIGHT? YOU DIDN'T JUST TAKE A VOTES AND SAY YOU WILL SENT THEM THE PREVIOUS RECOMMENDATION?

LOOKING AT SINGLE MEMBER DISTRICTS.

YOU DIDN'T JUST SAY WELL, WE DON'T HAVE TIME TO DEAL WITH IT, WE ARE GOING TO RUBBER STAMP WHAT THE OTHER ONE DID.

WE CERTAINLY SPENT A LOT OF TIME GIVEN THE AMOUNT OF THE DEADLINE THAT WE HAD ON SINGLE MEMBER DISTRICTS OVERALL.

SLUSHER: A LOT OF TIME —

ON SINGLE MEMBER DISTRICTS OF COURSE. ON A MIXED SYSTEM THERE WAS A FAIR AMOUNT OF DISCUSSION OF THAT, BUT ULTIMATELY WE REACHED THE CONCLUSION THAT ESSENTIALLY WE WOULD RUBBER STAMP THE PRIOR COMMISSION BECAUSE WE DIDN'T FEEL THAT WE OFFERED THE COUNCIL ANY NEW INFORMATION OR INSIGHT WHERE WE FELT THAT IT WAS USEFUL TO YOU FOR US TO — TO SECOND-GUESS THAT.

SLUSHER: OKAY. I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU WERE SAYING NOW. DO WE KNOW WHAT THE VOTE WAS ON THE PREVIOUS COMMISSION FOR MIXED? OR ON THAT VOTE? I THINK IT WAS — I THINK IT WAS THREE OF THE COMMISSION WERE FOR MIXED AND — THE PREVIOUS ONE —

THE PREVIOUS ONE? I DON'T KNOW IF THE RECORD SHOWS THAT. NEIL, COULD YOU LOOK AT THAT?

NEIL, DO YOU HAVE THE RECORDS OF THE PREVIOUS COMMISSION THAT MIGHT SHOW THAT?

I DON'T HAVE THE MINUTES. [INAUDIBLE - NO MIC].

I DON'T KNOW IF IT SHOWS THE ACTUAL VOTE. MY RECOLLECTION IS THAT IT DID. ALTHOUGH I DON'T HAVE IT.

SLUSHER: WELL, WE DON'T NEED TO LOOK THAT UP RIGHT NOW, BUT WE NEED THAT INFORMATION. MAYOR, I HAVE SOME MORE QUESTIONS.

MAYOR GARCIA: SURE, COUNCILMEMBER.

SLUSHER: I WANTED TO GO THROUGH THESE — OKAY. THERE'S FOUR, THERE'S A SCENARIO OF FOUR DISTRICTS, FIVE — THERE'S TWO FOR FIVE, SIX AND SEVEN. NOW, ON THE FIVE, I UNDERSTAND THE ONE THAT I WAS PROVIDED FIRST, WAS EVIDENTLY — YOU SAID IN A MEMO MAYBE IT WAS — ALL THE COUNCIL GOT THAT ONE WAS DROWN BY COUNCILMEMBER GRIFFITH'S OFFICE, IS THAT CORRECT.

THAT'S CORRECT, SIR.

THAT ONE THAT I — THEN I ASKED YOU TO DRAW ANOTHER ONE BECAUSE THAT DILL LETED THE — DILUTED THE AFRICAN AMERICAN REPRESENTATION, THAT FIVE MEMBER DISTRICT.

IT DID.

SLUSHER: OKAY. THEN LET'S GO THROUGH THE — THE AFRICAN AMERICAN REPRESENTATION. THAT ONE IT WENT DOWN TO 27.3, RIGHT? THAT'S 1.1.

CORRECT.

BUT THEN — AND THE HISPANIC WENT UP TO 45.6. UNDER THE OTHER ONE IT STILL JUST GOES UP TO 28.8. BUT THIS IS DOWN TO 40.3.

> EVEN — THIS EXERCISE, WITH THE CREATION OF THOSE TWO SCENARIOS, IS — IS A — IS A CASE IN POINT OF THE CHALLENGE THAT WE HAVE TO CREATE AN AFRICAN AMERICAN DISTRICT THAT'S — THAT'S REALLY STRONG IN TERMS OF PERCENTAGE. BECAUSE WHEN WE MOVE THAT LINE, UP OFF OF THE RIVER TO MATCH THE LINE THAT WE HAVE ESTABLISHED ON THE OTHER SCENARIOS, YOU REALLY ONLY HAVE A SLIGHT INCREASE IN THE PERCENTAGE OF AFRICAN AMERICAN WHERE YOU HAVE A DRAMATIC CHANGE IN THE HISPANIC SHARE.

SLUSHER: RIGHT.

IT'S BECAUSE THOSE DISTRICTS UNDER A FIVE-MEMBER SCENARIO ARE SO LARGE IN TOTAL POPULATION TERMS THAT IT BECOMES DIFFICULT TO MAXIMIZE THAT PARTICULAR COMMUNITY.

SLUSHER: AN THEN UNDER 4, — AND THEN UNDER 4, THE FOUR DISTRICT SCENARIO, IT'S DOWN TO 25%. NOW, IT DOESN'T — HOW DOES THAT, HOW CLOSE DOES THAT TRACK THE COUNTY COMMISSIONER DISTRICTS? I REALIZE THOSE ARE IN THE AREAS IN THE COUNTY WHERE THIS IS JUST CITY.

COINCIDENTALLY, I WAS LOOKING AT THAT MAP YESTERDAY MORNING AS WE WERE PICKING UP VOTER REGISTRATION DATA, IT'S SIMILAR. THEY HAVE GOT A MORE COMPLICATED DISTRICT 1, THAN OURS IS UNTHAT FOUR MEMBER SCENARIO. BUT — UNDER THAT FOUR MEMBER SCENARIO. BAUGH THEY ARE NOT — NOT EXTREMELY — BUT THEY ARE NOT EXTREMELY DIFFERENT FROM ONE ANOTHER.

SLUSHER: SO IF YOU LOOK AT — WHEN YOU GET TO GOING IN THIS SMALL, NOT GOING UP TO 14, I DON'T THINK ANYBODY IS SUPPORTING THIS, THAT'S NOT WHAT THE CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION RECOMMENDED. THEY RECOMMENDED 10-1, CORRECT?

10-1 TO GO TO 12 WHEN THE CITY GREW BY 25,000, WHICH I WOULD LIKE TO POINT OUT IS GOING TO HAPPEN PRETTY MUCH ANY DAY. WE WOULD PEG THAT 25,000 GAIN, EVEN THOUGH WE HAVE SLOWED DRAMATICALLY. IT'S CERTAINLY GOING TO OCCUR IN NEXT YEAR.

LET ME GIVE YOU THE VOTE ON THAT WHILE WE HAVE IT RIGHT HERE. FIVE IN FAVOR, THREE AGAINST, ONE ABSTENTION.

SLUSHER: SO THE PREVIOUS COMMISSION WAS FIVE TO THREE — SINGLE MEMBER?

THIS WAS A ORIGINALLY 12 DISTRICTS, SINGLE MEMBER DISTRICTS, THEN THIS GROUP LATER AMENDED IT TO BE 10 WITH THE GROWTH FACTOR TO 12.

SLUSHER: THE THREE THAT VOTED NO VOTED NO BECAUSE THEY WERE IN FAVOR OF THE MIXED SYSTEM.

FUTRELL: LET ME DOUBLE CHECK THAT. THEY DIDN'T SPELL THAT OUT HERE.

SLUSHER: OKAY. SO THEN WE GET UP TO, FOR AFRICAN AMERICAN REPRESENTATION, UP TO SIX, IT JUMPS THREE PERCENTAGE POINTS TO 31 WITH SIX DISTRICTS. THEN TO — PLUS SEVEN TO 33. OKAY. AND WILL TO 35. — AND 8 TO 35. ALL RIGHT. WELL, MAYOR, I WOULD YIELD THE FLOOR FOR NOW. I JUST WANTED TO THROW OUT SOME OF THOSE PERCENTAGES. I'M, AS I THINK PEOPLE KNOW, I'M MORE INTERESTED IN A MIXED SYSTEM. I GUESS THAT WE WILL GET DOWN TO TALKING ABOUT HOW MANY THAT WOULD BE OR IF IT LOOKS LIKE WE HAVE THE VOTES TO DO THAT OR NOT. THAT SORT OF THING —

MAYOR GARCIA: WE ARE NOT GOING TO VOTE TODAY. WE ARE GOING TO VOTE TOMORROW. WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO DO TODAY IS TO GET THE — THE QUESTIONS ANSWERED AND ONE OF THE COUNCILMEMBERS THAT HAS BEEN VERY MUCH INVOLVED HAS BEEN COUNCILMEMBER WYNN, I'M GOING TO ASK HIM IF HE HAS ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS AT THIS TIME.

WYNN: NO REAL QUESTIONS. I WILL RESERVE COMMENTS AS WE DISCUSS THE POTENTIAL NUMBER OF THESE POTENTIAL MIXED — THE SINGLE MEMBER PORTION OF A MIXED SYSTEM. THE COMMENT BEING THAT — YOU KNOW, AS WE SHRINK THE NUMBER OF SINGLE MEMBER DISTRICTS, INTO — PERHAPS TO COME UP WITH A MIXED SYSTEM, WE ARE DEFEATING TWO OF THE MAIN PURPOSES FOR SINGLE MEMBER DISTRICTS. ONE HAVING A SMALLER, LESS EXPENSIVE DISTRICT TO RUN A CAMPAIGN IN. THEN, TWO, THAT IDEA OF TRYING TO INCREASE MINORITY PARTICIPATION IN PARTICULAR DISTRICTS. SO WE START TO DEFEAT THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF WHY — WHY ACADEMICALLY PEOPLE ARGUE FOR SINGLE MEMBER DISTRICTS, BY DILUTING THAT. BUT ...

MAYOR GARCIA: I'M ALSO AN ADEQUATE OF THE [INAUDIBLE] SYSTEM, I KNOW IN THIS SITUATION WE MAY HAVE TO REACH SOME COMPROMISES SO THAT WE CAN GET SOME FORM OF DISTRICT ELECTIONS. AND SO I HAVE TOLD SOME OF THE COUNCILMEMBERS THAT I WOULD BE WILLING TO CONSIDER SOME MIXED OPTIONS, YOU KNOW, AND I HAVE INDICATED THAT — THAT AN 8 TO 1 WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT I COULD CONSIDER ASSUMING THAT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT THE COUNCIL WOULD CONSIDER TO BE A VIABLE OPTION. AND I'M CONCERNED ABOUT HOW THE COMMUNITY WOULD RESPOND TO A — AN INCREASE IN COUNCIL — IN THE COUNCIL FROM 7 TO 11. THAT'S A PRETTY SIGNIFICANT, YOU KNOW, INCREASE. AND THEN THE AUTOMATIC ONE, GOING TO TWO MORE DISTRICTS, YOU KNOW, AS THE GROWTH OF THE CITY OCCURS, LIKE MR. ROBINSON SAYS, WE ARE THERE ALREADY. SO — SO I DON'T KNOW WHETHER WE ARE TALK — WE WOULD BE TALKING ABOUT 10-2-1, IN PRIOR ELECTIONS, PARTICULARLY THE 1994 ELECTION, PEOPLE WERE CONCERNED, ONE OF THE REASONS THEY VOTED AGAINST IT WAS BECAUSE WE WERE GOING TO BE EXPAND THE SIZE OF THE COUNCIL. THERE'S SOME RESISTANCE ON THE PART OF THE COMMUNITY TO INCREASING THE SIZE OF THE COUNCIL. SO THAT BASICALLY IS WHERE I'M COMING FROM ON THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE. ANYBODY ELSE?

SLUSHER: LET ME MAKE — GO AHEAD.

ALVAREZ: I JUST HAD A QUESTION. I NOTICE IN THE — IN THE 7 DISTRICT SCENARIO THAT WAS DISTRIBUTED, WE HAVE A — WE HAVE ACTUALLY OUTLINED A COUPLE OF MAJORITY HISPANIC DISTRICTS. AND THEN IN THE 9 MEMBER VERSION, YOU HAVE TWO MAJORITY HISPANIC DISTRICTS. BUT IN THE 8 VERSION, 8 DISTRICT — 8 MEMBER DISTRICT VERSION, THERE IS NOT TWO MAJORITY HISPANIC DISTRICTS. SO I WAS WONDERING WHY WE COULD DO IT AT 7, BUT NOT AT — AND 9, BUT NOT AT 8. IF WE COULD LOOK AT THAT AND SIGH IF —

THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. I WILL TAKE A LA AT THAT. TAKE A LOOK AT THAT.

MAYOR GARCIA: COUNCILMEMBER SLUSHER?

SLUSHER: I WOULD BE INTERESTED, IF — IF IT WOULD BE POSSIBLE, MAYBE THIS IS ASKING TOO MUCH, BUT LET'S TRY A — WHAT COUNCILMEMBER ALVAREZ JUST SAID, TWO MAJORITY HISPANIC DISTRICTS OR AT LEAST ONE MAJORITY AND ONE VERY CLOSE AND THEN UNDER 6, IS THAT POSSIBLE? AND AT THE SAME TIME TO NOT DIVIDE THE CENTRAL AUSTIN DISTRICT AT THE RIVER. BUT TO HAVE TWO — HAVE A DISTRICT ON EACH SIDE OF THE RIVER AND THE SIX DISTRICT SCENARIO NOW IT — IT IS DIVIDED PRETTY EVENLY AT THE RIVER, SORT OF THE MIDDLE OF THAT DISTRICT. I WOULD LIKE TO DIVIDE IT AT THE RIVER INSTEAD. AND JUST SEE WHAT — I WOULD LIKE TO SEE WHAT WE CAN COME UP WITH THERE. I THOUGHT THIS MAP OVER HERE WAS VERY INTERESTING, THE VOTER TURNOUT. IT'S IN THE NOVEMBER 2000 ELECTION. IS THERE DATA TO WHERE THAT COULD BE DONE ON CITY COUNCIL ELECTIONS? THAT WOULD BE VERY INTERESTING BECAUSE ONE THING WE HEAR A LOT IS THE CENTRAL CITY TURNS OUT IN LARGER PORTIONS, LARGER TURNOUT PERCENTAGE THAN THE OUTLYING AREAS. I'VE ALWAYS THOUGHT THAT WAS NOT THE CASE. IT'S CERTAINLY NOT THE CASE IN THIS MAP HERE. AND I THINK THAT — THAT APPARENTLY HOLD. THE OVERALL NUMBERS WOULD GO DOWN SOME. I THINK THAT APPARENTLY BE THE SAME IN THE — THAT APPARENTLY BE THE SAME WITH THE CITY — THAT PATTERN WILL BE THE SAME WITH THE CITY ELECTIONS. MAYOR, LET ME TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT I'M DRIVING AT WITH MIXED. WE MAY END REPEATING SOME OF THIS TOMORROW WHEN WE VOTE. BUT I THINK — I AGREE WITH SOME OF THE — ABOUT LOWERING THE COST OF ELECTIONS AND I HEAR THE ARGUMENT ABOUT GEOGRAPHICAL REPRESENTATION. AND AT THE SAME TIME, I THINK THAT — THAT THE OPPONENTS, IT'S BEEN VOTED DOWN I THINK, WHAT, FIVE TIMES THAT SAID THEY WANT TO HAVE MORE THAN ONE COUNCILMEMBER REPRESENT THEM, THEY WANT TO BE ABLE TO GO TO MORE THAN ONE COUNCILMEMBER AND THEY ARE AFRAID THAT IF YOU HAVE SINGLE MEMBER DISTRICTS, THEY THEIR WON'T BE BUT ONE PERSON TO THE MAYOR THAT'S RESPONSIBLE TO THE ENTIRE CITY. I MEAN, THEY WOULD BE RESPONSIBLE IN THE FACT THAT THEY ARE AUSTIN CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS, BUT THEY ONLY ANSWER THE VERTS FOR ONE DISTRICT. SO I — THE VOTERS FOR ONE DISTRICT. THE MIX TO ME IS A MODERATE OR COMPROMISE APPROACH WHERE WE CAN ADDRESS GEOGRAPHIC REPRESENTATION, WE CAN LOWER THE COST OF ELECTIONS, WE CAN ADDRESS THE WHAT WAS ORIGINALLY THE IMPETUS FOR SINGLE MEMBER DISTRICTS YEARS AGO NOW, WAS TO ENSURE RACIAL REPRESENTATION. WE'VE HAD ARGUMENTS ON BOTH SIDES HOW AUSTIN HAS A VERY GOOD RECORD ON ELECTING DIVERSITY TO THE CITY COUNCIL. I THINK THAT WOULD CONTINUE UNDER ANY — EXCUSE ME, UNDER ANY SYSTEM THAT WE HAVE. BUT WE ALSO HAVE A RECORD WHERE THAT — THAT THE POPULATION OF ALL THE RACES HAS DISBURSED THROUGHOUT THE CITY. WE STILL HAVE, YOU KNOW, AREAS THAT ARE PREDOMINANTLY THE MAJORITY OR PREDOMINANTLY THE HIGHEST PERCENTAGE POPULATION, THE PLURALITY OF FOLKS, THE ETHNICITIES THAT HAVE LIVED THERE IN YEARS PAST. BUT WE HAVE ALSO MADE A LOT OF PROGRESS TOWARDS ONE OF THE DREAMS MARTIN LUTHER KING AND THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT THAT WHERE YOU LIVE WILL NOT BE RESTRICTED BASED ON YOUR RACE. SO IN THAT WAY, TO ME THAT'S AN ARGUMENT FOR EITHER MIXED OR — OR JUST EVEN BE AT LARGE SYSTEM, BUT WITH ALL OF THE ISSUES THAT HAVE BEEN RAISED BY THE SINGLE MEMBER, THE LOWER COST OF ELECTIONS, GEOGRAPHICAL REPRESENTATION, TO ME A MIXED SYSTEM MAKES SENSE. AND IT'S A — IT'S A COMPROMISE, BUT THAT'S REALLY HOW OUR FORM OF GOVERNMENT AND THE UNITED STATES, THE FEDERAL FORM OF GOVERNMENT WAS PUT TOGETHER, WAS A COMPROMISE OF THE FOUNDING FATHERS WHERE YOU GOT THE HOUSE, AND THE SENATE, THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH, THE JUDICIAL BRANCH. THERE IS A LOT OF DISAGREEMENT ON THAT AND HOW TO PROCEED ON THAT AT THE TIME. AND THEY WORKED THROUGH IT AND I THINK THAT'S WORKED OUT PRETTY WELL. PERHAPS WHAT WE ARE DOING IS NOT QUITE THAT IMPORTANT. BUT I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT, WE SHOULD LOOK AT IT IN THOSE KIND OF HIGH, PLAIN TERMS BECAUSE THE SYSTEM THAT WE HAVE NOW HAS BEEN IN PLACE FOR ALMOST 50 YEARS, THIS ONE COULD END UP BEING IN PLACE THAT LONG, THAT PEOPLE AFTER WE ARE GONE FROM THE CITY COUNCIL, EVEN GONE FROM THE EARTH ARE GOING TO BE LIVING UNDER THIS SYSTEM. SO THAT'S WHY I AM GLAD THAT WE'VE HAD THESE SEVERAL SESSIONS ON IT. AND I THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE FOR US TO COME TO A COMPROMISE THAT WE PUT BEFORE THE VOTERS.

MAYOR GARCIA: FURTHER COMMENTS? QUESTIONS?

I HATE TO BUTT IN, BUT I THINK THAT SINCE THE LAST TIME COUNCIL HAD A WORK SESSION ON THIS, WE'VE SEEN SOME NEW DATA THAT THE DEMOGRAPHERS HAVE GENERATED AS A RESULT OF COUNCIL COMMENTS REGARDING LOWER NUMBERS OF DISTRICTS. THE LAST TIME WE WERE HERE I THINK THE SCENARIOS HAD JUST BEEN RUN FOR 10, 12 AND 14. NOW, HAVING SEEN THE NUMBERS RUN FOR LOWER, I THINK — I THINK WE PROBABLY OUGHT TO — TO LET YOU KNOW, JUST SO THAT YOU WON BE SURPRISED BY IT LATER, THAT — THAT THE LOWER WE GO IN NUMBERS, I THINK WE RUN A DISTINCT DIFFICULTY IN ULTIMATE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT PRECLEARANCE REGARDING THE ADOPTION OF A SYSTEM THAT INCLUDES SOME GEOGRAPHICAL DISTRICTS. I WANT TO FIRST OF ALL, IT'S ABSOLUTELY CLEAR THAT WHEN — ONE NEED NOT BE A MEMBER OF A GIVEN ETHNIC COMMUNITY TO REPRESENT THAT COMMUNITY. I DON'T WANT TO INTIMATE IN ANY WAY THAT ALL OF YOU ADOPT REPRESENT ALL OF THE CITY. BUT THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE WILL PROBABLY TAKE A FAIRLY SIMPLISTIC VIEW OF WHAT A PROPOSED SYSTEM DOES. AND THEY ARE GOING TO LOOK AT THE NUMBER OF MINORITY CANDIDATES WHO ARE ELECTED NOW AND THE NUMBER OF MINORITY CANDIDATES WHO WOULD BE LIKELY TO BE ELECTED UNDER ANY GIVEN SYSTEM AS A WAY OF COMPARING THE BENCHMARK SYSTEM WITH ANY PROPOSED SYSTEM. THEY ARE GOING TO DO THAT JUST BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE ANY OTHER REAL OBJECTIVE WAY OF KNOWING WHO MIGHT BE A LIKELY PREFERRED REPRESENTATIVE OF MINORITY COMMUNITY, OTHER THAN LOOK AT THE ETHNICITY OF PEOPLE WHO GET ELECTED UNDER A GIVEN SYSTEM AND THE ETHNICITY OF PEOPLE WHO MIGHT BE ELECTED. AND WHAT THEY ARE GOING TO DO IS THEY ARE GOING TO COMPARE MINORITY VOTING STRENGTH OF THE AT LARGE SYSTEM THAT WE HAVE NOW, AS THE BENCHMARK. AND THEY ARE GOING TO COMPARE THAT WITH WHAT THEY WILL STRAP PLATE OF THE LIKELY SYSTEM. THEY ARE GOING TO COMPARE HOW WELL WE HAVE DONE IN THIS SYSTEM IN ELECTING MINORITY MEMBERS HOW WELL WE ARE LIKELY TO DO IN ANY GIVEN SYSTEM IN ELECTING MINORITY MEMBERS AND THEY ARE GOING TO COMPARE NUMBERS. NOW, UNDER THE AT LARGE SYSTEM THAT WE HAVE, THERE'S BEEN A TRADITION THAT HAS NOT BEEN WRITTEN INTO THE LAW, BUT THAT HAS ENABLED AUSTIN'S HISPANIC VOTERS AND THE CITY'S AFRICAN AMERICAN VOTERS TO ELECT CANDIDATES TO THE COUNCIL AND RIGHT NOW WHAT WE HAVE GOT IS A SEVEN MEMBER COUNCIL WITH THREE AFRICAN AMERICAN OR HISPANIC MEMBERS ON IT. AND THAT RESULTS IN REPRESENTATION OF THOSE COMMUNITIES AT PERCENTAGES SLIGHTLY HIGHER THAN THEIR REPRESENTATION IN THE VOTING AGE POPULATION IN THE CITY. SO WHEN THE DOJ LOOKS AT A SUBMISSION THAT WE MAKE UNDER A SCENARIO ADOPTED, THEY ARE GOING TO COMPARE THE BENCHMARK, WHICH RIGHT NOW IS THREE OUT OF SEVEN, AS A POSSIBILITY AGAINST WHAT THEY WILL SEE AS LIKELY OUTCOMES UNDER GIVEN SCENARIOS. AND WHEN YOU DROP MUCH BELOW 10, YOU ARE LOOKING AT SOME VERY DIFFICULT NUMBERS. AND WHEN — WHEN IN ADDITION TO — ANOTHER THING THAT WE NEED TO CONSIDER IS UNDER A SYSTEM THAT INCLUDES ELECTION BY DISTRICTS, THE TRADITION OF ALLOCATING SEATS TO THE MINORITY COMMUNITY MIGHT BE DISCONTINUED BY THE VOTERS ON THE IDEA THAT THE DISTRICTS TAKE CARE OF IT. IF SO, THEN IT MIGHT LIKELY BE THAT — THAT ANY SYSTEM THAT INCLUDES SOME AT LARGE NUMBERS, THE LOWER THE AT LARGE NUMBERS ARE, THE MORE DIFFICULT IT WILL BE TO — TO EXTRAPOLATE THERE WILL BE [INAUDIBLE] AT LARGE SEATS TO MINORITY COMMUNITIES. SO SO JUSTICE WILL CONSIDER WHETHER ANY GIVEN SYSTEM THAT IS DRAWN UP MIGHT ACTUALLY ELIMINATE ALTOGETHER OR REDUCE DRASTICALLY THE ABILITY OF MINORITY COMMUNITIES TO PUT THE SAME PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE ON THE COUNCIL THAT THEY PUT ON IT NOW. AND THEIR EXAMINATION IS ALSO LIKELY TO CONSIDER FUTURE RETRO GRESSION, EVEN IF CURRENT RETROGRESSION IS NOT SEEN AS SERIOUS, I THINK IT'S PROBABLY LIKELY OVER TIME THAT IT WILL GET MORE AND MORE DIFFICULT TO DRAW MINORITY INFLUENCE AND MAJORITY — IN MAJORITY DISTRICTS. SO D.O.J.IS GOING TO ARREST THE EFFECT OF A SYSTEM THAT WE ADOPT ON FUTURE SCENARIOS AS WELL AS CURRENT SCENARIOS. SO THE POINT OF ALL OF THIS IS JUST TO SAY IF WE GO THROUGH THE NUMBERS THAT HAVE BEEN GENERATED FOR THE NUMBERS OF DISTRICTSS UNDER 10, EVEN AT 10, I THINK THAT IT WOULD — A LOT IS GOING TO DEPEND ON THE — ON THE COMMENTS THAT D.O.J. RECEIVES FROM PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY AND ON THE REACTION IN THE COMMUNITY AND ON THEIR NUMBER CRUNCHING REGARDING PAST VOTER TURNOUT AND PAST ELECTORAL HISTORY AND THE ABILITY OF MINORITY COMMUNITIES TO FORM COALITIONS WITH ONE ANOTHER AS OPPOSED TO COMPETING WITH ONE ANOTHER. ALL OF THOSE THINGS ARE GOING TO BE CONSIDERED VERY CLOSELY, EVEN IN A 10 DISTRICT SCENARIO. BUT ONCE YOU GET BELOW THE 10, I THINK WE ARE LOOKING AT A VERY REAL POSSIBILITY, AND OF COURSE I DON'T HAVE A CRYSTAL BALL AND CAN'T SAY WHAT WOULD HAPPEN, BUT I THINK ONCE YOU GET BELOW 10 DISTRICTS, YOU ARE LOOKING AT A VERY REAL POSSIBILITY OF A FINDING OF RETRO GRESSION ON A CURRENTS AT LARGE SYSTEM.

I THOUGHT THAT WAS ALSO RAISED IN TERMS OF SINGLE MEMBER DISTRICTS, THAT IF YOU GO UP TO 10 OR 12, THEN YOU ONLY HAVE ONE AFRICAN AMERICAN, I THOUGHT AT THAT TIME THE ANSWER, I CAN'T REMEMBER EXACTLY, I THOUGHT IT WAS LIKE IT WASN'T CLEAR WHETHER THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT WOULD CONSIDER THAT —

IT'S A — YOU KNOW, IT'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS WHERE IN SOME WAYS YOU ARE SORT OF DAMNED IF YOU DO, DAMNED IF YOU DON'T. YOU GET INTO A SITUATION WHERE YOU ARE TRADING OFF DIFFICULT RESULTS. THAT'S JUST AS A RESULT OF OUR DEMOGRAPHICS. BELOW 10 DISTRICTS, WE ARE LOOKING AT PRETTY DIFFICULT NUMBERS.

SLUSHER: WHAT ABOUT, THOUGH, IF YOU ARE GOING TO 10 OR 12, AND YOU ONLY HAVE ONE AFRICAN AMERICAN DISTRICT, THAT'S NOT A MAJORITY AFRICAN AMERICAN DISTRICT, AREN'T YOU GETTING INTO THE SAME PROBLEM THAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT WITH THE MIXED SYSTEM?

WELL, RIGHT. THE DIFFICULTY THAT WE GET WITH A LOW NUMBER OF DISTRICTS IS THAT IF YOU TAKE, FOR EXAMPLE, THE FIVE DISTRICT OPTION, JUST TAKE ONE ON THE FAR END, DISTRICT 1, WHICH IS — WHICH IS THE STRONGEST AFRICAN AMERICAN DISTRICT, IN THAT SCENARIO, LET ME FLIP TO IT. IN THE FIVE DISTRICT SCENARIO, WITH VOTING AGE POPULATION, IS 26.7% AFRICAN AMERICAN. THAT'S IN A DISTRICT THAT'S 41.5% —

SLUSHER: THIS IS THE WHICH — WHICH —

THIS IS FIVE DISTRICT 1.1 —

SLUSHER: THAT'S THE ONE THAT WAS DRAWN BY COUNCILMEMBER GRIFFITH'S OFFICE, NOT THE ONE THAT WAS DRAWN BY THE DEMOGRAPHER, THAT GOES UP SLIGHTLY.

WE CAN LOOK AT 2.1. EITHER ONE THE POINT IS ABOUT THE SAME. IF YOU LOOK AT VOTING AGE POPULATION IN SINGLE MEMBER SCENARIO 5, VERSION 2.1, THE PERCENTAGE OF THE AFRICAN AMERICAN POPULATION THERE IS THE LOWEST OF THE THREE ETHNIC GROUPS REPRESENTED. SO IT'S —

SLUSHER: ON 2.1?

ON 2.1.

SLUSHER: I'M LOOKING AT 2.1. IT SAYS ALL OF THE — 28.8. IS THAT THE ONE THAT YOU ARE LOOKING AT?

YEAH. 28.0 — — [MULTIPLE VOICES]

VOTING AGE POPULATION.

MAYOR GARCIA: BELOW.

OF THE VOTING AGE POPULATION, YOU HAVE GOT 28.0 AFRICAN AMERICAN, THAT'S TO 31.3 NON-HISPANIC, WHITE AND 36%, EXCUSE ME, HISPANIC. IT WOULD BE VERY DIFFICULT TO — TO SHOW TO THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE THAT THAT DISTRICT WOULD BE LIKELY TO REPRESENT — TO ELECT AN AFRICAN AMERICAN REPRESENTATIVE. SO AT THE VERY LOW NUMBERS, YOU ARE GETTING INTO THE POSSIBILITY OF — OF ASSUMING PEOPLE VOTE UPON THE BASIS OF ETHNICITY, WHICH IS SORT OF A — NOT CLEARLY NOT A GIVEN, BUT IT'S AN ASSUMPTION THAT D.O.J. IS PROBABLY GOING TO INSTEAD TO MAKE IN ORDER TO ANALYZE THIS FOR THEIR PURPOSES.

SLUSHER: SO 10 YOU GO UP TO 39.7, GOING TO BE ROUNDED TO 40. WOULD THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE LOOK AT THAT DIFFERENTLY?

YES.

SLUSHER: BECAUSE THERE'S STILL NOT — IS THAT STILL NOT THERE.

STILL NOT A MAJORITY WHERE THE LEADING, HIGHEST NUMBER IN THE DISTRICT —

THEY WOULD PROBABLY LOOK AT THAT DIFFERENTLY. STILL, BECAUSE —

SLUSHER: BUT THEN YOU ARE GETTING INTO DILUTION OF THE REPRESENTATION ON THE COUNCIL.

RIGHT. THE TRADEOFF IS YOU GO FROM THE POSSIBILITY OF NOT GETTING ANYBODY ELECTED AT ALL, TO THE POSSIBILITY ON THE HIGH END NUMBERS OF AN ACCUSATION THAT YOU PACKED THE ETHNIC COMMUNITIES INTO A SMALL NUMBER OF DISTRICTS THAT HAS DILUTED THEIR OVERALL ABILITY IN THE ELECTIVE BECAUSE RIGHT NOW UNDER THE AT LARGE SYSTEM, AFRICAN AMERICANS WHO ARE 8.9% OF AUSTIN'S VOTING AGE POPULATION, ARE PRODUCING 14.3% OF THE COUNCIL. AND SO ANY SYSTEM THAT IS NOT PRODUCING NUMBERS LIKE THAT IS GOING TO HAVE AN ARGUMENT TO BE MADE THAT IT'S RETROGRESSIVE AS TO THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY. WHILE I'M NOT SAYING THAT JUSTICE WOULD NOT APPROVE A SYSTEM WITH A NUMBER OF DISTRICTS AT 10, 12 OR 14, I'M THINKING THAT AT ANY OF THOSE NUMBERS, IF THERE — THERE COULD BE DIFFICULTY WITH A RETRO GRESSION ARGUMENT AND AT NUMBERS BELOW THAT, THERE IS VERY LIKELY TO BE DIFFICULTY WITH THE ARGUMENT THAT THE SYSTEM MIGHT NOT PRODUCE ANY AFRICAN AMERICAN REPRESENTATION ON THE COUNCIL.

SLUSHER: BUT, OKAY. BUT ALSO TELL ME, THIS IS — IF THIS IS AN INCORRECT STATEMENT OR A BAD SUMMARY OF WHAT YOU ARE SAYING. BUT THAT ANY 12-1, 10-1, 6-4-1, MIXED OR SINGLE MEMBER, WE COULD END UP GOING UP TO THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT AND THEY SAY, "WELL, NO, ACTUALLY THE STATUS QUO SYSTEM, THE ARCHAIC SYSTEM WITH THE GENTLEMAN'S AGREEMENT THAT YOU'VE HAD IN PLACE ALL THESE YEARS IS ACTUALLY THE BEST SYSTEM FOR PROVIDING RACIAL REPRESENTATION AND THESE SYSTEMS THAT YOU ARE BRINGING UP TO US NOW ARE REGRESSION FROM THAT STANDARD, WHICH WE HAVE BEEN CRITICIZED AS THAT BEING —

THAT'S TRUE.

PATRONIZING —

MAYOR GARCIA: THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THE FEDERAL COURT SAID WHEN THE LAWSUIT WAS TRIED.

THAT'S TRUE. NOW THE — THE — THE QUESTION HERE IS NOT WHETHER GIVEN ANY SYSTEM THAT WE COME UP WITH THERE WON BE SOME PEOPLE WHO DON'T LIKE IT — WON'T BE SOME PEOPLE WHO DON'T LIKE IT OR WON'T MAKE AN ARGUMENT AGAINST IT, ANYTHING WILL NECESSARILY HAVE SMOOTH SAILING AT D.O.J., BUT THERE ARE SYSTEMS THAT I THINK ARE MORE CLEARLY GOING TO BE PROBLEMATIC THAN OTHERS. AND I BELIEVE THAT WHEN YOU GET INTO BELOW NUMBERS OF DISTRICTS, GIVEN THE DIFFICULTY OF DRAWING A STRONG AFRICAN AMERICAN DISTRICT IN THE CITY, BECAUSE OF OUR — OF OUR POPULATION PATTERNS, A LOW NUMBER OF DISTRICTS IS GOING TO BE, PER SE, A MUCH MORE PROBLEMATIC THAN A — THAN A NUMBER OF DISTRICTS AT 10 OR MORE.

I WOULD LIKE TO POINT OUT THAT THE — THE FOUR DISTRICT AND THE FIVE DISTRICT SCENARIOS WERE ORIGINALLY REQUESTED UNDER A SCHEME IN WHICH THERE WOULD BE TWO SEATS PER DISTRICT. AND SO — SO I JUST — I DIDN'T SAY THAT EARLIER. I WANTED TO MAKE THAT — I'M NOT EXACTLY SURE HOW THAT WOULD WORK. I KNOW THERE ARE LEGAL IMPLICATIONS TO THAT. BUT THAT'S A SPIN ON IT THAT I WASN'T ABLE TO COMMUNICATE EARLIER.

FOR PURPOSES OF THIS ANALYSIS, IT PROBABLY WON'T MAKE MUCH DIFFERENCE BECAUSE EVERYBODY IS ALL PROPORTIONAL. HOWEVER MANY SEATS ARE ELECTED FROM A FOUR OR FIVE DISTRICT SYSTEM, THE DEMOGRAPHIC MAKEUP OF THE DISTRICT THAT'S ELECTING THEM IS GOING TO BE SIMILAR. NOW, IT'S ALSO CLEARLY THE CASE THAT THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT WITH — WITH FOUR DISTRICTS HAS — HAS NOW GOT, I BELIEVE, TWO AFRICAN AMERICAN MEMBERS AND — AND HISPANIC MEMBERS.

60%.

THE — ALSO THE — THE SCHOOL DISTRICT ALSO HAS HAD SUCCESS IN ELECTING AFRICAN AMERICANS WITH A SEVEN MEMBER SYSTEM. HOWEVER, I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT IS WHAT D.O.J. MAY THINK WITH REGARD TO THOSE ELECTIONS. THEY HAVE A TERM CALLED EXOGENOUS ELECTIONS, WHICH MEANS ESSENTIALLY APPLES AND ORANGES. I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT ABSOLUTELY SHUTS THE DOOR ON ANY DIFFICULTIES WE MAY HAVE. BECAUSE WITH RESPECT TO THE COUNTY COMMISSION ELECTION, IT'S A PARTISAN ELECTION WHERE THE CANDIDATES GO THROUGH A TWO TIER ELECTION, ONE BEING PARTY NOMINATION IN THE DEMOCRATIC AND REPUBLICAN PRIMARIES AND THEN A RATIFICATION OF THAT NOMINATION BY ONE PARTY OR THE OTHER AND THE GENERAL ELECTION. SO I THINK IT PROBABLY COULD BE SHOWN THAT THAT GREATLY BENEFITS THE — THE PARTY PRIMARY SYSTEM, GREATLY BENEFITS THE ABILITY OF MINORITY CANDIDATES TO — TO MAKE IT THROUGH THE FIRST TEAR AND INTO THE GENERAL — FIRST TIER AND THROUGH THE GENERAL ELECTION WHERE THE DEMOGRAPHICS OF THE VARIOUS COUNTY COMMISSIONERS DISTRICTS ARE MORE LICKLY TO RATIFY THE RESULTS OF THE PIPE HEAR THAT REPRESENTS THE PARTY THAT'S THE PRIMARILY THE MAKEUP OF THAT DISTRICT. WITH RESPECT TO THE SCHOOL DISTRICT ELECTIONS, OF COURSE THE PATTERNS ARE QUITE A BIT DIFFERENT. WHAT D.O.J. IS GOING TO DO WHEN THEY GET THESE WHATEVER SCENARIO AUSTIN EVENTUALLY SENDS UP TO THEM, IS THEY ARE GOING TO CRUNCH ALL OF THE NUMBERS THEMSELVES. THEY ARE GOING TO DRAW THEIR OWN LINES AND SEE IF THEY COULDN'T HAVE DRAWN STRONGER DISTRICTS OR DISTRICTS THAT THEY MIGHT FIND LESS RETROGRESSIVE. THE BURDEN WOULD BE ON US TO SAY WHY IT WAS NOT PRACTICAL FOR US TO DRAW OR COME UP WITH A LET RETROGRESSIVE SYSTEM THAN WE CAME UP WITH. IF WE WE CAN'T CARRY THE BURDEN OF SHOWING WHY WE CAN'T COME UP WITH A LESS RETROGRESSIVE SYSTEM, IT'S LIKELY AN OBJECTION WOULD BE POSED.

LET ME ASK THIS. SINCE THE CITY OF AUSTIN HAS A RECORD, TRAVIS COUNTY HAS A RECORD OF ELECTING MINORITIES TO COUNTY-WIDE AND CITY-WIDE OFFICE, UNDER THE AT LARGE SYSTEM, WHY WOULD IT ASSUMED THAT THAT WOULDN'T HAPPEN UNDER THE MIXED SYSTEM AS WELL.

IT WOULDN'T BE ASSUMED THAT IT WOULDN'T. BUT — BUT THE — REMEMBER THE BURDEN IS ON US TO — TO SHOW THAT ANY SYSTEM WE PRESENT TO — TO D.O.J. IS NOT GOING TO RESULT IN RETROGRESSION. WHILE WE WOULD USE THAT CERTAINLY AND WE WOULD USE — WE WOULD HAVE TO — ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE WILL HAVE TO DO WHEN WE MAKE THE SUBMISSION, WE WILL HAVE TO PROVIDE 20 YEARS WORTH OF, I'M SURE, OF ELECTION RETURNS AND IDENTIFICATION — IDENTIFYING ALL OF THE CANDIDATES BY RACE, OF ALL ELECTIONS HELD BY VARIOUS POLITICAL SUBDIVISIONS IN THE COUNTY. SO THAT THEY CAN STUDY THE TURNOUT PATTERNS AND THE COALITION PATTERNS AND ALL KIND OF OTHER THINGS THAT GO INTO THE — THE RESULT OF THE VARIOUS KIND OF ELECTIONS. I THINK WHAT IT WILL SHOW, BECAUSE IT'S SHOWN BEFORE WITH RESPECT TO OUR JUSTICE DEPARTMENT SUBMISSIONS, IS THAT WE ACTUALLY DON'T HAVE COMPARED SO OTHER SIMILAR JURISDICTIONS, WE DON'T HAVE HIGHLY POLARIZED VOTING. ODDLY ENOUGH, THAT MAY NOT CUT IN OUR FAVOR BECAUSE WITHOUT COHESIVE VOTING IN COMMUNITIES, IT SOMETIMES BECOMES LESS LIKELY THAT THAT COMMUNITY IS GOING TO UNITE BEHIND A SINGLE CANDIDATE AND THEREFORE RESULT IN — IN EXPRESSING THEIR ELECTORAL WILL AT THE POLLS IN A WAY THAT MIGHT RESULT IN MORE REPRESENTATION FOR THAT COMMUNITY. BUT THE POINT IS THAT EVERYTHING THAT WE DO IS A CALCULATED RISK. BUT THE RISK FACTORS GO UP QUITE A BIT WHEN WE DROP DOWN DID A LOW NUMBER OF DISTRICTS. — DROP DOWN TO A LOW NUMBER OF DISTRICTS.

MAYOR GARCIA: OTHER QUESTIONS? MAYOR PRO TEM?

GOODMAN: UM LET ME — IF I CAN, GET A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT AND WHERE THEY ARE COMING FROM. I HAD NOT UNTIL TODAY THOUGHT OF THEM AS A BUREAUCRACY, PER SE. NOW I KNOW I DO.

THEY ARE A FEDERAL BUREAUCRACY. [ LAUGHTER ].

GOODMAN: SO DO THEY HAVE A CHARGE SOMEWHERE SOME I MEAN A SPECIFIC STATEMENT OF PURPOSE IN THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE?

YES, MA'AM. THE PURPOSE OF SECTION 5 OF THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT IS THAT — SECTION 5 OF THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT IS A VERY UNIQUE SORT OF LAW. IT'S — IT'S VERY UNUSUAL. THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT IS A — IS A MULTI FACETED PROTECTION FOR — FOR MEMBERS OF — MEMBERS OF RACIAL AND LINGUISTIC MINORITIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY WITH RESPECT TO THEIR ABILITY TO — TO PARTICIPATE FULLY IN THE ELECTORAL PROCESS. THE TWO SECTIONS THAT WE OFTEN HEAR MOST SPOKEN ABOUT WITH RESPECT TO THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT ARE SECTION 2, WHICH IN FACT PROHIBITS ANY ELECTORAL PRACTICE WHICH HAS THE INTENTION OR THE EFFECT OF DIMINISHING THE ABILITY OF MEMBERS OF LINGUISTIC AND [INAUDIBLE] MEMBERS OF THEIR CHOICE, WHICH AUSTIN'S AT LARGE SYSTEM WAS CHALLENGED IN FEDERAL COURT, IT WAS CHALLENGED UNDER SECTION 2 OF THE ACT. SECTION 5 OF THE ACT IS A PROVISION THAT DOES NOT APPLY NATIONWIDE. IT ONLY APPLIES TO JURISDICTIONS THAT ON A TEST DATE HAD IN PLACE WHAT WAS CALLED A TEST OR DEVICE THAT WAS INTENDED TO REDUCE THE PARTICIPATION OF MINORITY — MINORITY VOTERS IN THE ELECTORAL PROCESS. AUSTIN AND ALL OF TEXAS AND EVERY POLITICAL SUBDIVISION IN TEXAS ARE COVERED BY SECTION 5, BECAUSE ON THE TEST DATE WE HAD IN EFFECT A TESTER DEVICE, WHICH IN OUR CASE HAPPENED TO BE ENGLISH ONLY ELECTIONS. IN MUCH OF THE SOUTH, IS COVERED, BECAUSE ON THE TEST DATE THEY HAD IN EFFECT A LITERACY TEST OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. IN OUR CASE, IT WAS ENGLISH ONLY ELECTIONS. BECAUSE WE, THEREFORE, ARE A SUSPECT JURISDICTION, WE — WE CANNOT MAKE ANY CHANGE WITH ANY PRACTICE RELATED TO VOTING WITHOUT FIRST GETTING APPROVAL BY A FEDERAL AUTHORITY. EITHER THE DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA OR THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE. AND THE WAY IT WORKS IS IT'S DONE BUREAUCRATICALLY THROUGH THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE. SO ANY CHANGE WE MAKE FROM CHANGING A POLLING PLACE TO — AND ON UP IS SUBJECT TO SECTION 5 PRECLEARANCE BEFORE WE CAN DO IT. THE TEST IS RETROGRESSION, RETROGRESSION MEANS THAT COMPARED TO THE BENCHMARK, WHICH IS WHAT WE HAD IN PLACE IMMEDIATELY BEFORE THE CHANGE, DOES THE PROPOSED CHANGE RESULT IN MEMBERS OF LINGUISTIC AND RACIAL MINORITIES, WHICH IN OUR CASE MEANS HISPANIC AND AFRICAN AMERICAN VOTERS, ARE THEY BETTER OFF OR WORSE OFF AFTER THE CHANGE THAN — AND IF THEY ARE WORSE OFF AFTER THE CHANGE, THEN THERE IS RETROGRESSION AND THE DEPARTMENT WILL INTERPOSE AN OBJECTION, WHICH MEANS WE CAN'T ENFORCE THE CHANGE. OR THE DEPARTMENT WILL FIND THAT THERE IS NO RETROGRESSION, THEN WE WILL BE PERMITTED TO ENFORCE THE CHANGE WHEN THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT DOES NOT IMPOSE A — AN OBJECTION. BUT THE SPECIFIC ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION WHAT THEY ARE LOOKING IS FOR RETROGRESSION. THEY ARE GOING TO TEST TO SEE WHETHER OR NOT MEMBERS OF THE AFRICAN AMERICAN AND HISPANIC COMMUNITIES IN AUSTIN ARE BETTER OFF OR WORSE OFF WITH RESPECT TO ELECTING CANDIDATES OF THEIR CHOICE THAN THEY WERE BEFORE. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THEY ARE GOING TO LOOK AT IS JUST NUMBERS. THEY ARE GOING TO LOOK AT NUMBERS OF MEMBERS OF THE GOVERNING BODY WHO ARE MEMBERS OF THOSE GROUPS BECAUSE THEY CAN'T DEAL IN GREATER LEVELS OF ABSTRACTION BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO DEAL IN SOMETHING CONCRETE. THEY WON'T CONSIDER WHETHER OR NOT AN ANGLO MEMBER OF THE COUNCIL HAS BEEN AN EFFECTIVE ADAORA UDOJI CAT FOR AFRICAN AMERICAN — EFFECTIVE ADVOCATE FOR AFRICAN AMERICAN CONCERNS. THEY ONLY LOOK AT QUANTIFY, THEY CAN QUANTIFY OUT OF SEVEN WE ARE GETTING TWO HISPANICS AND ONE AFRICAN AMERICAN. THEY CAN SAY UNWHAT YOU ARE PROPOSING YOU ARE NOT GOING TO DO THAT WELL. IF WE ARE NOT GOING TO DO THAT WELL IS THERE SOME COUNTERVAGUE THING THAT — COUNTERVEILING THING THAT MAKES THAT NOT RETRO RESSIVE. IN OUR CASE IT MAY BE THE PERSON MIGHT BE MORE EFFECTIVE AS A REPRESENTATIVE IF ELECTED BY A MORE COHESIVE GROUP OF VOTERS IN THAT COMMUNITY. OR, THEY MIGHT BE PERSUADED, FOR EXAMPLE, IF THE — ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THEY WILL DO BESIDES RUNNING THEIR OWN NUMBERS AND LOOKING AT SCADS OF DATA, ONE OF THE THINGS THEY WILL ACTUALLY DO IS CONTACT PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY, THEY WILL CONTACT AFRICAN AMERICAN MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY, HISPANIC MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY, SAY WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS CHANGE. IF THE RESPONSE IS POSITIVE, THAT WILL TIP THE SCALES IN FAVOR. IF THE RESPONSE IS NEGATIVE, THAT WOULD — THAT WOULD BE — THAT WOULD TIP THE SCALES AGAINST. WITH YOU THEY WILL LOOK AT A NUMBER OF THINGS. WHILE I CAN'T SAY EXACTLY HOW ANY PARTICULAR THING WOULD COME OUT, I DO THINK THAT WHEN YOU GET TO THE POINT WHERE WE ARE NOT — WHEN YOU GET MUCH BELOW 10, IT BECOMES EVEN DIFFICULT TO DRAW THE AFRICAN AMERICAN PLURALITY DISTRICT. I THINK THAT'S GOING TO CAUSE, GIVE THEM SOME PAUSE.

ALVAREZ: MAYOR, I WOULD LIKE TO ASK A QUESTION.

MAYOR GARCIA: COUNCILMEMBER ALVAREZ?

GOODMAN: IF I GET THE FLOOR BACK.

ALVAREZ: I'M SORRY.

MAYOR GARCIA: I'M SORRY, MAYOR PRO TEM, YOU STILL HAVE THE FLOOR.

GOODMAN: THAT'S OKAY. I WILL WAIT.

ALVAREZ: I WAS JUST WANTING TO FOLLOW UP TO WHAT HE WAS SAYING. COULDN'T YOU ALSO ARGUE THAT IN THE 25 YEARS THAT THIS "GENTLEMAN'S AGREEMENT" HAS BEEN IN PLACE, THERE'S ONLY BEEN TWO MINORITY REPRESENTATIVES ON THE CITY COUNCIL AND LOOK AT THAT AND JUST INSTEAD OF IT JUST HAPPENS THAT WE HAVE A MAYOR FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER IN THE HISTORY OF THIS CITY, YOU KNOW, WHY IS THAT MORE REPRESENTATIVE OF THE FACT THAT OVER 25 YEARS THERE'S ONLY BEEN TWO OUT OF SEVEN.

RIGHT.

THEN LOOK AT WHAT THE DEMOGRAPHICS ARE AND HOW THE NUMBERS PLACE OUT.

I THINK IT WOULD BE LESS LIKELY, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT ANY SYSTEM THAT WE GO TO IS ANY LESS LIKELY TO BE REGRESSIVE WITH RESPECT TO THE HISPANIC COMMUNITY BECAUSE IT'S ACTUALLY FAIRLY EASY TO DRAW HISPANIC DISTRICTS. BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, IT'S REALLY THE FRIENDSHIP AMERICAN COMMUNITY THAT CAUSES THE — THE DIFFICULTY AND THE CHANCE OF A FINDING OF RETROGRESSION BECAUSE OF THE DIFFICULTY OF — OF — JUST BECAUSE OF THE — BECAUSE OF THE NUMBERS. RIGHT NOW, IT'S GOING TO BE VERY DIFFICULT TO DRAW ANY SYSTEM THAT DOES AS WELL AS THIS SYSTEM HAS DONE IN PRODUCING AFRICAN AMERICAN REPRESENTATION ON THE COUNCIL AS — AS COMPARED TO THE STRENGTH OF THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY IN THE GENERAL POPULATION OF AUSTIN. AND WHILE THERE MAY BE COUNTERVEILING TENDENCIES THAT WOULD OVERCOME THAT, MY OWN VIEW IS THAT AT 10 DISTRICTS OR ABOVE, OUR CHANCES WOULD BE FAIRLY DECENT OF GETTING PRECLEARED. BUT THE — I CAN'T SAY THAT THERE WOULD BE — THAT'S GENERALLY BECAUSE OF THE — OF THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE IS USED TO LIKING SINGLE MEMBER DISTRICTS BETTER THAN AT LARGE ELECTIONS. AND THAT'S BECAUSE SINGLE MEMBER DISTRICTS ARE GENERALLY A REMEDIAL EFFECT FOR JURISDICTIONS THAT DON'T HAVE A GOOD TRACK RECORD. WE DO HAVE A GOOD TRACK RECORD. SO IT IS POSSIBLE THAT WHAT IN OTHER PLACES IS — WOULD BE A REMEDIAL EFFECT, AT LEAST ONE OF OUR PROTECTED MINORITIES WOULD HAVE SOME RETRO GRESSIVE EFFECT. WHETHER THAT WOULD OVERWHELM ALL OTHER CONSIDERATIONS AND CAUSE THEM TO INTERPOSE AN OBJECTION, I DON'T KNOW. BUT THEY WON'T SAY, ONE THING THAT I'M SURE OF, IS THAT JUSTICE WON'T SAY THIS COMMUNITY OF YOUR TWO COMMUNITIES, ONE OF THEM IS TAKEN CARE OF, SO WE ARE NOT GOING TO WORRY ABOUT THE OTHER ONE. THEY WILL WORRY ABOUT BOTH OF THE MINORITY COMMUNITIES.

MAYOR PRO TEM, BACK TO YOU.

GOODMAN: LET ME ASK ONE HOPEFULLY FAIRLY SIMPLE QUESTION THEN ABOUT THE DATE THAT THEY THEY LOOK AT. YOU SAY THEY ARE GOING TO LOOK AT VOTER TURNOUT AND ELECTIONS AND I ASSUME NOT NECESSARILY ONLY A GENERAL ELECTION WHERE THERE ARE PARTY POLITICS INVOLVED.

NO. THEY WILL LOOK AT A WIDE RANGE OF DATA. THEY WILL LOOK AT — THEY WILL LOOK AT POPULATIONS OF DISTRICTS AS A WHOLE, THE VOTING AGE POPULATION OF THE DISTRICT AS A WHOLE, THEY WILL LOOK AT CITIZEN VOTING AGE DISTRICTS AS A WHOLE, PARTICULARLY WITH DISTRICTS THAT ARE LIKELY TO ELECT HISPANIC CANDIDATES OR THAT MIGHT BE LIKELY TO ELECT HISPANIC CANDIDATES, THAT WILL BE A VERY IMPORTANT CONSIDERATION. CITIZEN VOTING AGE POPULATION WILL BE A VERY IMPORTANT CONSIDERATION, FOR EXAMPLE IN THEIR CONSIDERATION OF DISTRICT 1 IN ALL OF THESE SCENARIOS, WHICH IS THE AFRICAN AMERICAN DISTRICT, WHICH ALSO IS VERY CLOSE IN SOME CASES — IN SOME CASES IS ACTUALLY NOT THE PLURALITY, BUT HISPANICS ARE ACTUALLY THE — EXCUSE ME, PLURALITY IN MANY OF THOSE DISTRICTS. THEREFORE ONE OF THE THINGS D.O.J. WILL LOOK FOR IS CITIZEN AGE POPULATIONS THAT BRINGS THE HISPANIC NUMBER DOWN A BIT TO MAKE THE POPULATION MORE STRONGLY AFRICAN AMERICAN. THOSE ARE NUMBERS THAT WE PROBABLY WON'T HAVE FOR ANOTHER TWO OR THREE MONTHS FROM THE CENSUS. AT THIS POINT WE DON'T HAVE THAT DATE THAT. THEY WILL LA AT REGISTRATION PATTERNS. BY — LOOK AT REGISTRATION PATTERNS. HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE REGISTERED VOTERS AS COMPARED TO THE WHOLE POPULATION, THEY WILL LOOK AT VOTING PATTERNS BY PRECINCTS OVER TIME IN MUNICIPAL ELECTIONS. PROBABLY ALSO COMPARE DATA FROM OTHER ELECTIONS IN THE SAME TERRITORY. THOSE WILL BE GIVEN SOMEWHAT LESS WEIGHT BECAUSE OF THEIR EXOGENOUS NATURE. AND BECAUSE OF THE POLITICAL DYNAMICS, SUCH AS PARTISAN ELECTIONS IN THE COUNTIES, BUT THEY WILL CONSIDER THAT DATA AS WELL. THEY WILL LOOK AT THE THING AS A WHOLE, COMPARE WHAT THE CURRENT SYSTEM AS A WHOLE HAS PRODUCED AND THEY WILL COMPARE THAT TO WHAT THEY THINK IT LIKELY THAT ANY NEW SYSTEM AS A WHOLE WOULD PRODUCE. AND IF — IF THEY ARE ABLE TO FIND THAT IT WOULD BE THE SAME OR BETTER WITH RESPECT TO THE ABILITY HISPANICS AND AFRICANS TO ELECT CANDIDATES OF THEIR CHOICE, THEN THEY WILL PRECLEAR IT.

GOODMAN: WELL, I WOULD LIKE, MAYOR, TO SEE A MAP OF ONE OF OUR ELECTIONS RATHER THAN A GENERAL ELECTION. I THINK THAT WOULD TELL US MORE ABOUT WHAT IT IS THAT WE ARE TRYING TO DO IN THE FIRST PLACE. I AM WONDERING TO WHAT EXTENT THE — THE ANALYSIS OF VOTING PATTERNS RUNS TO FOR THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT. BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE IF YOU ARE GOING TO CHOOSE THE AFRICAN AMERICAN ONE, FOR INSTANCE, AND LOOK AT THE OTHER WAYS IT'S BEEN DIVIDED TO TRY TO GET THAT REPRESENTATION AT THE STATE LEVEL OR COUNTY OR WHAT HAVE YOU, THEN YOU ARE ACTUALLY — IT SEEMS TO ME — GOING TO HAVE TO PARSE OUT IN ESSENCE, AFRICAN AMERICAN CANDIDATES AND THE TURNOUTS AND THE VOTES AND ISN'T SOME OF THAT GOING TO BE CONTRADICTORY? I'M THINKING OF CITY COUNCIL ELECTIONS IN PARTICULAR. WHERE IF YOU ARE SAYING THAT AN AFRICAN AMERICAN HAS BEEN ELECTED AND THAT CONSTITUTES REPRESENTATION, IT DOESN'T ALWAYS MATCH WHO EXACTLY ELECTED THE AFRICAN AMERICAN. WHICH IS WHY I WASN'T EVER SURE WHY — WHY THEY DECIDED WE WERE OKAY AT THE — AT THE AT LARGE SYSTEM.

THERE HAVE BEEN A FEW EXCEPTIONS, BUT OVER TIME WE HAVE NOT HAD HIGHLY POLARIZED YOAGHT — VOTING IN GENERAL. THERE HAVE BEEN EXCEPTIONS TO THIS, BUT OVER TIME THE CHOICE OF VARIOUS MINORITY COMMUNITIES HAS NOT DIFFERED SO MUCH FROM THE CHOICE AT LARGE, WHICH IS WHAT IT MEANS THAT AUSTIN DOESN'T HAVE HIGHLY POLARIZED VOTING PATTERNS BASED ON RACE, THAT'S HIGHLY COALITIONAL IS THE TERM THAT'S USED, ACROSS ETHNIC GROUPS IN AUSTIN. AND A LOT OF THAT DATA WAS — WAS CRUNCHED BACK IN '97 WHEN WE DID LARGE — WHEN WE DID SOME LARGE ANNEXATIONS AND WE HAD A RATHER VIGOROUS CHALLENGE AT THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE WHEN WE TRIED TO PRECLEAR THE — THE — THOSE ANNEXATIONS. [ONE MOMENT PLEASE FOR CHANGE IN CAPTIONERS]

THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE. THEY DON'T CONSIDER ANYTHING ELSE.

GRIFFITH:

GOODMAN: WELL, THAT'S INTERESTING CONSIDERING THEIR NAMES.

MAYOR GARCIA: ONE QUICK QUESTION, MR. ROBINSON. IN MANY OF THESE DISTRICTS WE HAVE SOME RESIDENTS THAT ARE NOT CITIZENS. IS THAT INCLUDED IN THE CALCULATIONS THAT YOU GAVE US?

NO. THE DEMOGRAPHIC PROFILES THAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW REFLECT TOTAL POPULATION AND VOTING AGE POPULATION, BUT WITHIN THOSE NUMBERS THERE ARE NON-CITIZENS. IT GETS INTO THE ARGUMENT FOR ME AT LEAST AS TO HOW WELL THE CENSUS BUREAU CAN COUNT NON-CITIZENS, BECAUSE NON-CITIZENS ARE TRADITIONALLY KNOWN AS A DIFFICULT COMMUNITY TO NUMBER. AND CERTAINLY I'VE SPOKEN WITH OTHER INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE DONE THIS REDISTRICTING EXERCISE IN AUSTIN AND THEY HAVE TOLD ME THAT THERE'S A SIGNIFICANT SHARE, ESPECIALLY WITHIN THE HISPANIC COMMUNITY, WITH THAT CITIZEN, NON-CITIZEN, IS ENOUGH TO WORRY ABOUT, MEANING IT WILL AFFECT THE NUMBERS. SO WHAT WE HAVE IS ON THE TABLE IS EVERYBODY. AND WE'RE NOT ABLE YET TO PULL OUT NON-CITIZENS FROM THE DATA. IT'S DOABLE, BUT THE COMPLETE DATA SET IS NOT HERE YET, BUT IT WILL BE WITHIN A COUPLE OF MONTHS.

MAYOR GARCIA: CAN IT BE DONE AT LEAST IN A GENERAL MANNER BY LOOKING AT SOME THINGS LIKE, FOR INSTANCE — ACKNOWLEDGED I DON'T KNOW WHETHER IT CAN BE DONE OR NOT. BUT THE STATE REP FROM THE NORTHEAST, REPRESENTATIVE DUKES, AND COMMISSIONER DAVIS IN PRECINCT 1, CAN WE EXTRACT FROM THE DATA WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE PEOPLE THAT VOTED WERE HISPANIC AND WHAT WERE BLACK? BECAUSE BOTH OF THOSE DISTRICTS ARE PREDOMINANTLY HISPANIC, BUT THE AFRICAN-AMERICANS HAVE GOTTEN ELECTED FROM THOSE TWO PRECINCTS OR DISTRICTS. AND I WAS WONDERING IF THERE'S SOME WAY TO EXTRACT THAT INFORMATION FROM THE RECORDS.

MAYOR GARCIA: IT WOULD NOT GIVE US EXACT DATA, OF COURSE, BUT IF THAT DISTRICT WAS 37 OR 38% HISPANIC, BUT THE TOTAL VOTE WAS ONLY 20, THAT MAY INDICATE THAT WE HAVE A HIGHER CONCENTRATION OF NON-CITIZENS IN THAT AREA.

I CERTAINLY THINK WE'RE COMFORTABLE IN DESIGNATING THE DIRECTION AND I THINK WE COULD ALSO BE COMFORTABLE IN COMING UP WITH THE MAGNITUDE OF THREE OR FOUR PERCENT, BUT WE WOULD HAVE TO WORK WITH THAT AND USE THAT, BUT THAT'S WHAT OTHER FOLKS WILL DO. IN ABSENCE OF HAVING THE REAL DATA, WE'LL COME UP WITH A SURROGATE MEASURE THAT THEY'RE COMFORTABLE WITH AND APPLY THAT. BUT IN GENERAL TERMS IT SIMPLY MEANS THAT SOME OF THOSE AREAS, AS YOU'RE POINTING OUT, WILL HAVE — WILL SIMPLY BE LESS STRONG WITH RESPECT TO THE HISPANIC POPULATION AND STRONGER WITH RESPECT TO THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN POPULATION.

MAYOR GARCIA: OKAY. FURTHER QUESTIONS? COMMENTS?

SLUSHER: ONE QUESTION. WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE WORDS RETRO GRESSIVE AND REGRESS SIEVE?

I HOPE I DIDN'T SAY REGRESS SIEVE.

SLUSHER: NO.

THE SERVE THAT IS USED AT DOJ IS RETRO GRESSION. I GUESS IT'S A SILL LABEL.

SLUSHER: IT'S A SILLABLE, THAT'S THE QUESTION. SO THEY ARE SYNONYMOUS.

I THINK THEY ARE PRETTY CLOSE WORDS.

SLUSHER: OKAY.

MOVING BACKWARDS, Ac NON-LATIN WAY TO PUT IT.

MAYOR GARCIA: THANK YOU, MR. ROBINSON. AND THE NEXT ITEM IS THE ITEMS —

GRIFFITH: MAYOR, COULD I ASK A REALK QUESTION BEFORE WE GO TO THE NEXT THING. MR. STEINER, WHEN COULD WE GET A PROPOSAL INTO THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE AND HOW LONG WOULD IT TAKE THEM TO GET IT BACK? AND WOULD WE HAVE THAT IN TIME TO KNOW WHAT THEIR ATTITUDE WAS — IN TIME TO MAKE A DECISION ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT TO PUT IT ON?

OH. NO, MA'AM, THAT'S NOT POSSIBLE.

THE WAY IT WORKS, IT'S CALLED PRECLEARANCE, BUT IT'S REALLY POST-CLEARANCE IN THE SENSE THAT THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE WILL NOT CONSIDER HYPE THET CELZ, THEY WILL ON ONLY CONSIDER SOMETHING THAT'S INACTED. SO BEFORE THEY WILL CONSIDER ANY CHANGE, WE ACT, FOR EXAMPLE, SAY TO THEM WE'RE CONSIDERING THESE OPTIONS, WHICH ONE DO YOU LIKE? THEY WON'T CONSIDER THAT. THEY WILL ONLY CONSIDER SOMETHING AFTER EVERY ACTION HAS BEEN TAKEN TO ENACT IT. AND THE ONLY EXCEPTION TO THAT IS THEY WILL CONSIDER SOMETHING THAT REQUIRES RATIFICATION AND A REFERENDUM BEFORE THE REFERENDUM IS HELD IF EVERY OTHER ACTION HAS BEEN DONE AND THE REFERENDUM HAS BEEN CALLED. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, WITH RESPECT TO THIS CHANGE THEY WOULD NOT CONSIDER IT UNTIL IT WAS ON THE BALLOT AND READY TO GO, UNTIL YOU CAN CALLED — THE ORDINANCE CALLING THE ELECTION HAD BEEN PASSED. NOW, AT THIS POINT UNTIL THE LINES ARE DRAWN — AND THIS IS ANOTHER DECISION THAT COUNCIL WILL HAVE TO MAKE — IS WHETHER OR NOT YOU WANT TO DRAW THE LINES NOW OR LATER. BUT BOTH THE CHANGE FROM AN AT LARGE SYSTEM TO SOMETHING ELSE WILL HAVE TO BE PRECLEARED. AND IF THAT SOMETHING ELSE INCLUDES DISTRICTS, THOSE DISTRICTS WILL HAVE TO BE PRECLEARED BEFORE THEY CAN BE IMPLEMENTED. SO IF WE WANT TO I AM FLEMENT THIS IN THE 2003 — IN MAY OF 2003, WE BETTER HAVE EVERYTHING SUBMITTED BY LATE SUMMER OF THIS YEAR IF WE HOPE TO HAVE ANY CHANCE OF GETTING IT BACK IN TIME FOR IMPLEMENTATION IN A MAY ELECTION OF 2003. AND THAT WOULD BE CUTTING IT PRETTY CLOSE. TIMING WISE. BECAUSE DOJ HAS 60 DAYS FROM THE TIME THEY RECEIVE A SUBMISSION TO CONSIDER IT, AND THEN THEY GET TO GIVE THEMSELVES ANOTHER 60 DAYS BY ASKING FOR MORE INFORMATION.

GRIFFITH: THAT'S ABOUT SIX MONTHS.

AND THEN THEY GET ANOTHER 60 DAYS. AND THE WAY THEY GIVE THEMSELVES THE OTHER 60 DAYS IS THEY ASK FOR MORE INFORMATION. SPECIFICALLY THEY ASK FOR LOTS OF INFORMATION SO THAT THERE IS A TIME LAG OF US GATHERING IT WHICH GIVES THEM EVEN MORE TIME. SO PROBABLY, YEAH, YOU NEED TO THINK FIVE MONTHS, MAYBE SIX. AND SO IF WE DON'T HAVE IT IN TO THEM BY LATE SUMMER, IT WILL BE DIFFICULT TO GET IN BACK IN TIME TO HAVE IT IN TIME SO THE CANDIDATES, REMEMBER, CAN BEGIN FILING FOR THE 2003 ELECTION IN MID FEBRUARY. SO FOR CANDIDATES TO KNOW WHAT TO FILE FOR BY MID FEBRUARY OF 2003, WE WOULD HAVE TO GET THAT THING — ALL THE STUFF TO THEM BY I THINK LATE SUMMER OF 2002, BUT EVEN THAT WOULDN'T BE GIVING US A LOT OF TIME TO LUXURIATE IN. SO ONE OF THE THINGS WE MIGHT WANT TO REMEMBER WHEN WE WRITE AN IMPLEMENTATION PROCEDURE INTO THE CHARTER IS WHAT HAPPENS IF WE DON'T GET TO IMPLEMENT IN 2003 AND HAVE TO WAIT TO IMPLEMENT IN 2004 OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

SLUSHER: MAYOR, THAT BRINGS UP ANOTHER ISSUE WHICH I HESITATE TO DRAW THIS OUT, BUT WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO DISCUSS EITHER TODAY OR TOMORROW IS ABOUT IF WE ARE GOING TO DO A MIXED SYSTEM, WHEN DO WE PUT THE MAP BEFORE THE PEOPLE? IS THAT BEFORE THE ELECTION, AFTER THE ELECTION? WE TALKED A LITTLE BIT PREVIOUSLY ABOUT THE INDEPENDENT REVIEW BOARD RECOMMENDED BY THE CHARTER COMMISSION. THAT SEEMED SERIOUSLY PROBLEMATIC TO ME. SO I DON'T KNOW IF ANYBODY WANTS TO DISCUSS THAT NOW, BUT I THINK WE PROBABLY SHOULD TOMORROW IF WE'RE GOING TO VOTE TOMORROW.

MAYOR GARCIA: DO YOU HAVE ANY OPINIONS ON THAT?

WELL, YEAH, THAT'S PURELY A POLITICAL QUESTION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT TO DRAW THE LINES FIRST OR AFTER, BUT IT DOES HAVE SOME LEGAL IMPLICATIONS IN IMPLEMENTING A PLAN BECAUSE THEN WE HAVE TO DECIDE WHO DO YOU WANT TO HAVE DRAW THE LINES? DO YOU WANT TO DO IT — NOT TO YOURSELF. [ LAUGHTER ] I'M SORRY.

MAYOR GARCIA: YOU WERE RIGHT THE FIRST TIME. [ LAUGHTER ]

MAYORANT TO DO IT YOURSELF.

DO YOU WANT TO DO IT YOURSELF OR DO YOU WANT TO HAVE ANOTHER BODY DO IT OR DO YOU WANT TO APPOINT AN ADVISORY BODY? AND ALL OF THESE THINGS WILL GO INTO TIMING ISSUES BECAUSE THE — THERE'S A LOT OF WORK THAT GOES INTO DRAWING LINES. AND THAT WORK ONLY BEGINS WITH THE DRAWING OF LINES WITH VOTING RIGHTS CONCERNED. KEEP IN MIND THAT FEDERAL LAW ALSO TELLS US THAT — AND I THINK THE COUNCIL HAS EXPRESSED THIS MORE ELOQUENTLY THAN I CAN MANY TIMES. FEDERAL LAW ALSO TELLS US THAT RACE CANNOT PREDOMINATE OVER EVERY OTHER CONCERN IN DRAWING LINES. FEDERAL STATUTORY LAW TELLS US THAT WE HAVE TO CONSIDER RACE WITH RESPECT TO NOT CAUSING RETRO GRESSION, BUT WITH RESPECT FOR THE ABILITY OF MINORITIES TO ELECT THEIR CANDIDATES OF CHOICE, BUT THAT CAN'T TAKE PRECEDENCE OVER EVERY OTHER CONCERN. AND THIS COUNCIL HAS TOLD US THAT'S NOT A PREDOMINANT REASON FOR GOING TO SINGLE-MEMBER DISTRICTS HERE, BUT INCREASED FAIRNESS TO THE COMMUNITY IS ALSO. AND THEREFORE ONCE YOU HAVE DONE THE EXERCISE OF DRAWING LINES THAT COMPLY WITH THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT, TO THE EXTENT THAT WE CAN NOT CAUSING RETRO G REVMENT ESSION AND MINORITY REPRESENTATION RNGS THEN WE GET INTO HOW DO WE DRAW LINES THAT SATISFY OVER OTHER CONCERN THAT EVERY OTHER POLITICAL NEIGHBORHOOD DEMOGRAPHIC COMMUNITY OF INTEREST AND CONCERN IN THE COMMUNITY. SO ONCE YOU'VE GOTTEN PAST THE VOTING RIGHTS ISSUES, YOU'VE ONLY BEGUN TO DO THE WORK OF REDISTRICTING. AND SO THERE IS A LOT OF WORK TO DO. AND KEEP IN MIND THAT ON ALL OF THE PROTOTYPE SCENARIOS THAT HAVE BEEN DRAWN BY THE DEMOGRALPHER, THOSE ARE JUST PROTOTYPE SCENARIOS. THERE'S NO REASON WHY COUNCIL CAN'T MOVE, SAY, THOSE DISTRICTS 8, 9 AND 10 ANY WAY YOU WANT THEM TO BE AND THERE MIGHT BE ALL KINDS OF GOOD REASONS WHY YOU WANT THEM TO BE ONE OR OR ANOTHER. AND SO THAT TAKES A LOT. AND REMEMBER, ALL OF THIS WORK HAS BEEN TO BE DONE IN A WAY THAT SATISFIES YOUR POLITICAL PERSONS WITH RESPECT TO GETTING — CONCERNS WITH RESPECT TO GETTING — PRESENTING THE MATTER TO THE VOTERS AND THAT SATISFIES THE TIMING CONCERN OF GETTING IT DONE SO THAT WE CAN GET A SUBMISSION TOGETHER. AND IF WE STILL ARE LOOKING TO IMPLEMENT PERHAPS IN 2003.

SLUSHER: SO WE COULD DO IT BEFORE THE ELECTION OR IF WE DIDN'T DO IT BEFORE THE ELECTION, WE NEED TO DO IT BY SUMMER ANYWAY.

YEAH. IF YOU ACCEPT ON ITS FACE, WHICH THE RECOMMENDATION OF THE CHARTER REVISION COMMITTEE, THE REDISTRICTING WOULD NOT BE THE COUNCIL'S PREROGATIVE, IT WOULD BE THE PREROGATIVE OF A REDISTRICTING BOARD APPOINTED BY THE COUNCIL. THAT BODY WOULDN'T FORMALLY EXIST UNTIL THE AMENDMENT WERE APPROVED BY THE VOTERS, ALTHOUGH, OF COURSE, YOU COULD PUT IT TOGETHER INFORMALLY BEFORE THAT. YOU'VE GOT TO START IT IF YOU WANT TO USE THAT METHOD.

SLUSHER: BUT THEN OF COURSE THAT RECOMMENDATION, IT SAID IF WE ALSO ADOPTED THEIR CRITERIA, THEN RACE COULDN'T BE USED IN DRAWING THE DISTRICTS, WHICH WOULD CONTRADICT THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT AND WOULD VIOLATE THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT STANDARD, SO WE WOULD BE IN A MESS RIGHT FROM THE START WITH THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT.

CLEARLY RACE WILL HAVE TO BE A CONSIDERATION. IT IS NOT A CONSIDERATION THAT WE WANT TO PREDOMINATE, BUT FEDERAL LAW REQUIRES THAT WE CONSIDER IT. SO EVEN IF WE ADOPTED THE CHARTER REVISION THAT SAYS DON'T CONSIDER IT, YOU INDUSTRIAL TO. SO IT MAY BE ONE OF THE THINGS HAVE YOU TO CONSIDER IS NOT ADOPTING SOMETHING IN THE CHARTER THAT CREATES AN ENFORCED HIGH POCK ACCURACY. ALSO AMONG THE THINGS WERE NO MORE THAN A FIVE PERCENT VARIATION IN THE DISTRICT. THAT IS GOING TO BE EVEN MORE DIFFICULT TO DRAW THE DISTRICTS WITH RESTRICTIONS LIKE THAT. AND SO YOU MAY WANT TO CONSIDER ALL OF THOSE SORTS OF THINGS. AS I SAY, ONCE YOU'VE GOTTEN PAST VOTING RIGHTS CONCERNS, YOU'VE ONLY JUST BEGUN WITH REDISTRICTING BECAUSE THEN YOU HAVE TO CONSIDER ONE PERSON, ONE VOTE. YOU HAVE TO CONSIDER THE IMPLICATIONS POLITICALLY. YOU HAVE TO CONSIDER ALL THE OTHER KINDS OF THINGS YOU WANT TO CONSIDER IN HOW TO DRAW THE LINES AND WHERE TO DRAW THE LINES. AND YOU EVEN HAVE TO CONSIDER WHAT YOU WANT TO CONSIDER. I MEAN, I DON'T WANT TO UNDERPLAY WHAT A MAJOR PROCESS DISTRICTS CAN BE FOR A POLITICAL SUBDIVISION. BESIDES JUST THE LEGAL REQUIREMENT, YOU HAVE TO CONSIDER THE PRACTICAL DIFFICULTIES OF GETTING CITIZEN BUY-IN AND HOLDING — HAVING AN OPPORTUNITY FOR CITIZENS TO MAKE THEIR VIEWS KNOWN AND LOTS OF OTHER SORTS OF THINGS THAT I'M SURE YOU'RE GOING TO WANT TO HAVE HAPPEN. ALL OF THOSE THINGS DON'T HAPPEN INSTANTANEOUSLY. AND EVERY STEP BUILDS IN MORE TIME THAT THESE THINGS SEEM TO TAKE.

MAYOR GARCIA: MR. ROBINSON, WHEN YOU DREW UP THE SCENARIOS, WOULD THAT NOT BE A FIRST STEP TOWARD DRAWING THE MAPS?

I THINK SO. ONE POINT THAT WE'VE WANTED TO COMMUNICATE IS THAT IN THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE BUILDING OF THE MINORITY DISTRICTS, WE FEEL THERE ARE REALLY ONLY SO MANY WAYS TO DRAW THOSE TO MAXIMIZE THAT, BUT ONCE YOU'VE BUILT THOSE MINORITY DISTRICTS, THERE ARE SO MANY DIFFERENT POSSIBLE WAYS TO DRAW THE REMAINDER OF THE CITY. BUT YES, SIR, I BELIEVE THAT THAT IS THE INITIAL FIRST STEP. AND AGAIN, WE TOOK IT BECAUSE IN ORDER TO LOOK AT THE NUMBERS YOU HAVE TO DRAW LINES. AND THAT WAS OUR MOTIVATION. BUT THEY ARE STILL VERY MUCH PROTOTYPES.

MAYOR GARCIA: BESIDES THE CRITERIA THAT YOU ADDRESSED WITH REGARD TO AFRICAN-AMERICAN DISTRICTS, WHAT OTHER CRITERIA DID YOU USE IN — LET'S SAY THE 10-DISTRICT SCENARIO, WHAT OTHER CRITERIA DID YOU USE IN DRAWING UP THE DISTRICTS FOR THE REST OF THE POPULATION?

WE TRIED TO FOLLOW THE TRADITIONAL RULES OF KEEPING COMMUNITIES OF INTEREST INTACT. SO ONE EXAMPLE THAT I THINK IS A GOOD EXAMPLE TO USE IS THERE'S A SECTION OF THE NORTH PART OF THE CITY, THE NORTHWEST SECTION OF THE CITY — IN FACT, IT'S BETTER IN THIS — ROUND ROCK INDEPENDENT SCHOOL DISTRICT DIVES DOWN INTO THAT PORTION OF THE CITY AND WE PAID CLOSE ATTENTION TO TRYING TO KEEP THAT AREA TOGETHER. OTHER COMMUNITIES OF INTEREST IN MOST SCENARIOS, THE SOUTH BANK OF WHAT I CALL NEAR-IN SOUTH AUSTIN. BUT WE TRIED TO BASICALLY CREATE DISTRICTS THAT MADE SENSE FROM A LOGICAL STANDPOINT. AND WE GET AWAY FROM QUANTITATIVE RULES THAT WE WERE ABLE TO USE IN THE BUILDING OF THE MINORITY DISTRICTS.

MAYOR GARCIA: OKAY. FURTHER QUESTIONS? THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. ROBINSON.

THANK YOU.

MAYOR GARCIA: AND LET ME ANNOUNCE THAT OVER THE NEXT — I DON'T KNOW HOW LONGc WE'RE GOING TO BE HERE BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO BE DISCUSSING THIS ONE TOMORROW. AND I THINK EVERYBODY HAD SOME APPOINTMENTS THIS AFTERNOON. SO WE MAY JUST POSTPONE SOME OF THE DISCUSSION OF SOME OF THESE ITEMS UNTIL TOMORROW. THAT'S WHEN WE'LL ACT ON IT. BUT LET ME KIND OF TAKE A POLL. COUNCILMEMBER WYNN, WHEN IS YOUR NEXT SCHEDULE?

YNN: I HAVE A 1:30, SO I WILL BE LEAVING IN 30 MINUTES.

MAYOR GARCIA: COUNCILMEMBER?

GRIFFITH: [ INAUDIBLE ]

MAYOR GARCIA: OKAY. THAT'S RIGHT. YOU AND I HAVE OUR ONE ON ONE THIS WEEK. I SUSPECT THAT I'M GOING TO LOSE A QUORUM HERE VERY SOON. AND EVEN THOUGH THESE ARE DISCUSSION ITEMS, IT PROBABLY WOULD BE BETTER FOR US TO WAIT UNTIL TOMORROW TO CONTINUE DISCUSSIONS BECAUSE COUNCILMEMBERS HAVE APPOINTMENTS STARTING IN ABOUT 30 OR 45 MINUTES. SO I GUESS WHAT WE'LL DO IS WAIT UNTIL TOMORROW AND PICK UP THE OTHER ITEMS THAT YOU ALL RECOMMENDED AND THE ONES THAT HAVE BEEN RECOMMENDED BY COUNCILMEMBERS. I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO ADJOURN THIS MEETING?

GRIFFITH: SO MOVE.

MAYOR GARCIA: MOTION BY COUNCILMEMBER GRIFFITH. SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER ALVAREZ TO ADJOURN. ALL IN FAVOR, SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE OPPOSED NO? MOTION CARRIES.

MAYOR GARCIA: FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT ARE INTERESTED, THERE'S A BOXED LUNCHES IN ROOM 240, ONE FLOOR BELOW, BOX LUNCHES AND DRINKS.

GRIFFITH: FOR ANYBODY WATCHING ON TV... [ LAUGHTER ].

End of Council Session Closed Caption Log