Closed Caption Log, Council Meeting, 11/19/98

>>Mayor Watson: welcome everybody. Mr. Brothers, are you here? Mr. Brothers, could you come up here? welcome. Folks. We're going to start the day off with some proclamations and the first one is one that I'm particularly pleased to be able to give. As many of you have heard me say before, I have a strong and I know this Council has a strong feeling about the folks who work on behalf of the citizens of Austin as employees of the City. The fact is that being a public certify fant and working as a City -- servant and a City employee, you come in contact with some issues that have great and significant and dramatic impact on people's lives. So it is always a special pleasure when one of our employees and one of the servants of our citizens has distinguished themselves and so we're able to recognize that with a distinguished service award. And so today I have the pleasure of reading a -- reading this distinguished service award as follows: in acknowledgment and appreciation for his untiring efforts and unselfish service to our community, for his kindness and consideration for others, for his brilliant legal mind and for all his dedicated hard work toward the creation of the Austin-Bergstrom international airport and many other projects during his tenure with the City of Austin law department, Charles a. Brothers is deserving of public aclaim and recognition and it's signed by me on behalf of the entire City Council of Austin. And charlie, I couldn't be happier to give you a distinguished service award. [Applause].

>> Thank you very much, Mayor. It's age strange from this side of the die as. I'm not sure I know how to talk from other here. This has been an interesting 13 years for me. When I was hired in december of 1985 I told them I'd work at least six months to year. It took me almost 13 years to get my year in. It has been my pleasure to serve my City for that 13 years. I've had the pleasure of working with some very distinguished people on the Council, I've had the privilege of getting advice, giving advice from the Council and public. Sometimes unexpected, sometimes without much preparation, and I assure you that's a tough way to get to do that, but I appreciate your courtesies and the times when you perhaps did not like my advice, you still were nice to me. I appreciate that. [Laughter]. To Jesus, a professional City manager, non-more professional than that. When I started you were at public would works, so I followed you around. It's been a pleasure to do that. You lead a professional City staff. And no one knows that more than people in the law department who work across the city with all the departments in the various and sundry places and it's a real privilege to say I was part of that and to be able to work with you for these number of years. And I assure you, Council, those work very, very hard to do what you want. Sometimes we're not real sure, but we're always trying. [Laughter]. To those departments that I've worked with, it's been my pleasure, my privilege to say oof been working with the airport a long time and I guess I have. I guess I feel a little bit of comfort I can leave. It's about ready to go. And those of you who are seeing things in the paper, it's on budget and on schedule, it is on budget, it is on schedule and you're going to open and you're going to be so proud of that facility come may of next year. Members of the law department, I appreciate you being here. If I've had successes, they are atriblted to you. Ranale and elizabeth and becky have taken care of me for years. The staff is beautiful. They take care of us. The attorneys, your advice to me, I appreciate that. I especially appreciate my wife being here today. It's the second time she's been in chambers. I wonder what controversy would require her to be here. Plead stand up, honey. -- Please stand up, honey. [Applause]. And all of you, thank you very much and let's get on with the consent agenda. [Applause].

>>Garcia: I'm Gus car see I can't. Serving on the Austin City Council place two. Today we will be presenting certificates to our partners in the arts and humanities. I'll read the first one and I'm going to get help doing this, right? the certificate reads, this is to certify that through his significant support for the city of Austin's cultural facilities and programs during the past year, michael stewart -- is michael here? you were the first one on the list, so you're going to get to stand while I read off all this. Has rendered valuable and distinguished service to the citizens of Austin, Texas and this certificate is issued in recognition thereof this fifth day of november, 1998 and it's issued by the City Council of Austin and signed by merit, Kirk Watson.

>> Thank you. [Applause].

>>Garcia: and the next one is see celia hughes o. O. Cecela -- cecelia hughes:. [Applause]. Do we have a representative from bpa systems, inc.? [applause]. Melissa mcreynolds? [applause]. Clarence a. Buttredge?

>> this is for my dad, who really is an old man.

>>Garcia: that makes two of us. Thank you very much. [Applause]. Steve shoven? did I pronounce your last name correctly? thank you so much and congratulations?

>> thank you.

>>Garcia: they want to take a picture of you. [Applause].

>>Garcia: Dr. Taylor? did I pronounce your first name correctly?

>> almost.

>>Garcia: thank you so much.

>> And we would like for you and the Councilmembers to advertise the museum a little bit, the o'henry museum. [Applause].

>>Garcia: mike cox? there you are, mike. Thank you so much for all you do. [Applause].

>>Garcia: pam graham? [applause].

>>Garcia: this group is for the hyde park neighborhood association. Susan pryor? sara simpson? congratulations. Thank you very much. [Applause]. Julie strong is not with us, but her certificate is here, so if you will hand it to her later. Evelyn northup?

>> thank you very much. It's quite an honor.

>>Garcia: they want you to stand over there and take a picture. [Applause].

>>Garcia: Mr. Connelly?

>> thank you. [Applause]. Debra hurdle? thank you very much. Congratulations.

>> Thanks. [Applause]. Leroy warmly? [applause]. Bank of america, do we have a representative here from bank of america? gte wireless? or wired, either one. [Applause]. Dell computer corporation? anybody here from dell? [applause]. Travis county react? [applause]. And I think we have other members of react here, so you all might want to stand. Thank you so much for being here. [Applause]. The allendale neighborhood association. [Applause]. Phyllis brinkly.

>>Garcia: and the friends of the pie on near farm pioneer farm.

>> This is a brand new visitors taid gooid that has just been published. It's available at pioneer farms.

>>Garcia: if you want a brochure, it's valuable at the farm. -- It's available at the farm. Thank you very much. They want you to take a picture. [Applause]. [Inaudible]. (Everyone talking at once)

>> while those folks are leaving, could I ask joe munoz and anybody else from the board of directors to come up and also we have David lee Garza. Joe munoz, could you come up here? let's hold off. Maybe he's around the corner trying to get in.

>>Mayor Watson: do we have some westwood high school folks here? yes or no? anybody from westwood high school here? okay. Well, we'll move on to the next one too.

>>Goodman: good it is really nice to be in a time of economic well-being for the city of Austin and we're all thinking very positively these days, but it's also good for us to remember that we have not yet put together the perfect world and especially as the weather gets colder and the holidays come nearer and we remember that it is okay to care about those who don't have as much as we have and it's all right to try to do something about it. Let me read this proclamation on behalf of the Mayor and Council. To let it be known by these presents that Kirk Watson, Mayor of the City of Austin, Texas action does here by proclaim november 14th through 22nd, 1998 as national hunger and homeless awareness week in Austin. And calls on all citizens to join us in recognizing that even in this blessed country where food and clothing are plentyful, there are those who are hungry and cold. In recognizing the severe devastation faced by the homeless population in Austin and throughout the country, many of whom are young children or senior citizens and in commending the ad cats for the homeless who are uniting across the nation and are urging everyone to involve themselves in direct action to tend this waste of human potential, needless suffering and tragic loss of life. We in Austin do thank the many folks who are out there trying to make a difference. I see several out in the audience who have given up so many hours of their time and work and commitment, so many folks who weren't able to make it here today. And Richard Troxell to accept this, who is very well known for the commitment he's made. Thank you all very much. [Applause].

>> We'd like to thank Councilmember Garcia and the Mayor for taking this time to recognize hunger and homeless awareness week, not just in Austin, but also around the entire country. In recognition of that week, different people have gathered together to have different events to symbolize what we do and what we're about and I'd like to introduce mike otty who is going it talk about the events for hunger and homeless awareness week. Mike?

>> my name is mike otty and I'm a volunteer for the Austin homeless coalition and on behalf of the coalition we would like to thank the Mayor and the Council for their continuing support and activity for ending homelessness in Austin. I'd also like to mention a few events eve got going on on. This year's hunger and homeless awareness week is sponsored in part by the Austin homeless coalition, the Austin metro politician ministries. This year's focus has been hunger work and homelessness work and bringing them together to have an important week. To highlight a few of the events, our annual art from the streets art show at the Austin resource center for the homeless one block over here is going on november 14th and 15th from newspaper to five. Last year's event raised something on the order of $12,000 which was given directly back to the artists. Also on the 18th of november, wednesday night at 12:00 o'clock we're screening a 40 minute documentary of a homeless family who had camped in the bolden greenbelt area for many, many years and it's showing the life and death of that camp. And we also, of course, have the homeless memorial service on sunday the 22nd at dawn on the shores of Town Lake. And one big ee convenient we're also dmiet excited about on the 22nd is the homeless jam at la zona rose is a. A few homeless musicians are getting together to play for a couple of hours at la zona rose is a.

>> Thanks, mike. It's not all fun and games living on the street of Austin or anywhere in america. It takes its toll while we as service providers and we as formerly homeless and we as the homeless are struggling with this problem, it takes its toll. As mike had said, on sunday, november 22nd, we will have a sunrise service to recognize the men and women that have lived and died on the streets of Austin this last year. We'll now read the names of the people that have died this year. If you please would show your reference. Clifton manning, John curry, shaun tear any. Colleen open pen right. Ollie at well and Bruce atkins, got bless their souls. Miguel rivera. Mexican mike. Melissa valera.

>> Asher azell and jebiah watt tells. Jackie cox and rafael bonea. Rest in peace.

>> Kenneth choate and douglas ingraham.

>> Gary burke and joseph Martin.

>> Charles Robert howl, douglas vanna ger.

>> Ronnie rayford, carlos james.

>> Allen may field.

>> Allen love.

>> Lawrence hanson and big steve.

>> Mr. U, tommy ray travis.

>> Indian tom. Rest in peace.

>> Mac Martin, dennis sut son. Den any man cue so you, james head rick, Mr. S, richard red.

>> Mike rivera, rest in peace.

>> We all look forward to the day when there are no more names to be read. House the homeless. Thank you for your proclamation. [Applause].

>>Mayor Watson: why don't you come up. I'm particularly please pleased to get to make the next presentation because as an attorney who has been involved with the state bar of Texas and the Texas young lawyers association, travis county bar and Austin young lawyers association, I know the level of skill, work and effort to goes into keeping justice alive in our community and I have standing with me some very good friends who have spent a great deal of time and their professional careers working in that regard, so let me read this proclamation. Be it known by these presents that I, Kirk Watson, Mayor of the City of Austin, Texas, do here by proclaim november 15th through the 21st, 1998 as keep justice alive week in Austin. And I call on all citizens to join me in recognizing that the rule of law and the integrity of the justice system are corner stones upon which our democracy was built and recognizing that our legal system is the envy of the world and deserves our respect, in recognizing that the state bar of Texas has developed and educational plan, partnered with lawyers, local bar associations and members of the judiciary which includes an innovative -- initiative -- ooze a lawyer, I talk for a living. [Laughter]. Which includes an initiative to education to educate the general public and especially young people about their part in the legal system and the third branch of our government and an integral part of our functioning democracy and in encouraging everyone to pause and reflect on the pen fits that we derive from our justice during keep justice alive week and it's signed by me, Kirk Watson, Mayor of the city of Austin and I'm happy to make the presentation to the president of the state bar of Texas, who also happens to be an Austin night, richard pena and he is joined by tony alvarado, tim shoe lock, representing the Travis County bar association and toya cook haley, who is the president elect of the Austin young lawyers association. Thank you all very, very much. [Applause].

>> Thank you, Mayor. I'd like to thank you for two things, the Mayor and the Council. First is for the proclamation. It is truly appreciated. It is part of a statewide effort and a statewide week, november 15th through 21st will be keep justice alive week throughout the state, various cities, all the cities are proclaiming it to a certain extent. On a personal note I would like to thank Mayor Watson and the Council. I would like to thank all of you for the leadership that you have shown for the City of Austin. Thank you very much for that. I'd like to ask toya cook haley to say a few words now.

>> Thank you. As you've already heard, the coming week will be keep justice alive week and that will be from november 15th through the 21st. It's part of a statewide effort that the Texas -- the state bar association of Texas and the Texas young lawyers are partnering with our local bar associations to restore public trust and confidence in our legal system. This week will provide each of us with the opportunity to celebrate our justice system and those who make the rule of law work. The Travis County bar association and the Austin young lawyers association will use this week to better inform the citizenry of Travis County about their courthouse, how the legal system works and the role that each of us plays in ensuring that our democracy remains strong. On behalf of the Travis County bar association and the Austin young lawyers association, we'd like to thank Mayor Kirk Watson and the City of Austin for this proclamation. [Applause].

>>Mayor Watson: thank y'all. Now for a little bit of music. We have with us today mario Garza. Mario Garza a may be of the miacon tribe of the -- say it again for me. He is a visual artist in pottery, sculptures and painting. He is also' writing and a musician. In addition to playing the native american flut. Dr. Garza's day job is managing the cultural contracts office for the City of Austin. So we're very proud of the work he does in the day job and very proud of the work he does in his night job and I am pleased today to make this proclamation. Be it known by these presents that I, Kirk Watson, Mayor of the City of Austin, Texas, do here by proclaim november 5th, 1998 as mario Garza day in Austin. And I join all the citizens in recognizing the many contributions by the local music community toward the benefit of Austin's cultural diversity and in recognizing the dedicated efforts of artists which furthers Austin's status as the live music capital of the world signed by me. Thank you. [Applause].

>> I wanted to invite them to --.

>>Mayor Watson: please, sure.

>> I'm going to play a traditional song and then I want to introduce the people from the powwow and we're here and we want to thank the Mayor and the Council for allowing us to come every year to publicize the powwow that has become the largest one day powwow in the nation so that's something Austin can be proud of. So let me play a song and then I'll turn it over for vince and John and David. [Music playing] (music playing)s (music playing). [Applause].

>> Could daniel and David and vince, they were the originators of the powwow and they have been working on it this year, so a lot of the thanks belong to David and vince and now gene is one of the new coordinators of the powwow, so I'll turn it over to them to tell you about it.

>> Thank you. Jim daniel, as co-chair of the powwow this year, I want to thank you on behalf of the native american planning committee, the 25,000 people expected again this year to come out on saturday at 10 a.m. To 10 at night november the seventh to the tony burger center. We want to thank the City of Austin, the Mayor and the City Council for their continued support. Take care. [Applause].

>> I have some special thanks to give to the City of Austin too this year from myself and another member of our small planning semi kmi. As some of you know, we have some real hard working volunteers. This year about three dozen of us raised $70,000 to put on this free gift to the City of Austin. And to tell you the truth, normally I come out here and try to tell a few jokes and get you all excited about the powwow, but I have special thanks this year, because if it wasn't for the City of Austin and its fine employees, I wouldn't be here. Last december 23rd I had a near fatal heart attack and one of my friends said that I know hold the unofficial Travis County record for highest blood pressure survivor. I was 400/380 h. 0 When they caught me. But the fire department is marvelous. I can't say enough about the e.m.s. People. I will never regret a penny of property tax I pay in Austin again. [Laughter]. And the same is true for our t-shirt chairman, linda davenport, who was overcome by smoke inhalation just a week ago. And again, it was a case where without care, concern and just amazing efficiency by the fire department and ams e.m.s., she wouldn't be here. So thank you, Austin and please come to the powwow. [Applause]. Pow-wow wow. Mr. Mayor, have you very much and I would like to ask for some time if I might because we have our own proclamation, and by wait, we were here first, so we can do that. [Laughter]. Seven years ago when a small group of us -- actually, it was when Austin discovered that there were indians living again in Austin, came to us and said, can you help us learn more about the indian culture and who lived here and our history? we were kind of devastate and didn't know what to do and we called upon a gentleman to ask for help and see what we could do. And that gentleman is sitting here today, Gus Garcia and we would like to present him today with a token of our appreciation. If you will help me here. Gus, we would like for you to accept a blanket from us from the Austin pow-wow which will -- and also put you in the hearts of the indian community and one of our elders and one of our leaders. And again, thank you for all our help that you helped start this all out with.

>>Garcia: I don't know if I'm an indian, but I know I'm an elder.

>> We know you're an indian. Thank you so much. [Applause].

>>Mayor Watson: thank you all very much for being here and thank you also for honoring our former Mayor pro tem and friend of all of us, Gus Garcia. That's wonderful.

>> Do I get half of it since I'm the next oldest? [laughter].

>>Mayor Watson: I'll call to order the Austin City Council for a regular meeting. It's thursday, november 5th, 1998. We're meeting at the City Council chambers which are locate loekted at 308 west second street. Let me read changes and corrections to the agenda for november 5th. Item no. 20 Should read, approve an ordinance to consider establishing the pilot project utilizing rainwater harvesting as impervious cover mitigation and waive section 13-2-4 of the City code and this will be set for a time certain of four o'clock p.m.. Item no. 37 Should read approve an ordinance authorizing negotiation and execution of an agreement with lamar sixth Austin, inc., et cetera. Item 38 should read, approve an order nons for cost reimbursement for lamar sixth Austin, inc.. Which provides for smart growth initiative cost reimbursements not to exceed 100 $48,000 and 278,thousand dollars for improvements to Shoal creek. Item 39 should read approve the vacation and contract for sale of portions of the bowie street right-of-way 500 block from west fifth street to west sixth street to Charles nash/nash ranch, inc., a and b properties, inc. And lamar sixth Austin, inc., consideration of 278,258 dollars to be received in the form of infrastructure improvements. Item number 52. Professional services agreement with carter burr guess was recommended by the solid waste advisory commission. Item 77 should read, approve confirmation of the inlt rim appointment of a doctor for the Travis County health and human services department beginning november one, 1998. Item no. 80 Should read, approve a resolution regarding the proposal of up to me, inc., to operate a rehabilitation facility at 2910 webberville road. This item is postponed to november 19th, 1998. Councilmember Lewis? [inaudible]. It was changed so that it would not be pulled, but the new word is confirmation after the word approve. Items that are set for a time certain, item 57 at 3:30 p.m. Relating to the Austin housing finance corporation, item no. 20 Related to the miatia is set for four o'clock. Item no. 79, The public hearing on the up to me chemical dependency is it. Item 68 at 5:30 to waive the minimum distance requirement for a one day street fair which intends to sell alcoholic beverage on guadalupe street. 69 At 6:30, public hearing on proemd amendment to the 98-99 community development program and consolidated plan. Item 70 at 7:00 o'clock p.m.. Public hearing for full annexation for pond strings, fm 620 right-of-way, park chase c, lone star began away tract, brodie springs area. Pond springs commercial area and howard lane industrial tract. Item no. 71 At 7:15, public hearing for the limited purpose annexation of the galloway tract. Item no. 72 At seven:30 p.m.. On the anderson mill municipal utility district and pull full purpose annexation for the anderson mill mud. Let me just indicate to the people that are waiting on various items, the way we will proceed is we will go to the approval of the minutes, we will do general citizens communication, we will then do the consent agenda. We have a number of items that have been pulled for discussion that I anticipate the time of the passage of the consent agenda, we will -- I'll entertain a motion to recess to go back into executive session to cover some items that need to be covered in executive session and welcome back in and try to follow the time certain matters as close to starting at 3:30 that we can but I will anticipate because of scheduling and the number of items that are set at certain times and the number of items that have been pulled, we will start falling behind shortly after I stop talking. [Laughter]. With that the first item on the agenda is the approval of the agenda for the regular meeting of september 30th, 1998 and october 1, 21 and 22, 1998. Is there a motion? motion is made by Councilmember Garcia, seconded by Councilmember Slusher. Is there any discussion. Hearing none, all those in favor say aye. Opposed say no. Motion carries on item no. One. It takes us to general citizens communications. What I would ask that you do is I'll call out the first three names and if you're on deck, please go to the other podium so you will be prepared at the conclusion of the previous speaker. John kunkel, followed by Gus pena and then kenneth walker. Welcome Mr. Kunkel.

>> Welcome. In my right hand, folks, is the account to which I write a 100-dollar check every month so I can ay my City of Austin property taxes. I've been doing that for 10 months. In my left hand is the billy open up every month that shows I owe technology hydraulics 70 bucks for sewer services, more than twice as much as any other resident. I've been doing that for 10 months. Now, a year ago, you all agreed, we all agreed, we ought to fix the problem. And for a year, people smile at me, pat me on the back, tell me, boy, this is really tough closing this deal. It's a couple of million dollars and I kind of go along with it. Well, folks, the year is almost over. There are three more Council members. The last one is on december 10th. I think it's time to move up the schedule on this thing. I know you can move faster because back in the springtime you put together a 65 million dollar bond issue, passed it, negotiated with property owners, paid for the properties and close closed the contracts in less time than you've spent on this little deal. So I know you're capable of doing it. I'm here today to suggest to you that you take two steps right now today. Step no. 1, Direct the City manager to put together an expedited process to close this deal by december 10th. Staff is that close to having the deal. At the commission hearings, Council scheduling and so forth. I think we can cut through it. I'm led to believe, Mr. Garza, that your staff could support yours, but someone needs to start walking the walk on this deal. The second thing I'm saying to you is I think we need to have a plan b. Plan b says the deal doesn't get one this year. Plan b says what are we going to do to make things right for these 600 homeowners starting January one. I have some thoughts on that, as you well know from our past discussions. I'm more than happy to work with people in trying to develop solutions. Let's walk the walk, let's get it done. It's gone too long, taken too much time. Close the deal and then you get on and those of you who are standing for reelection can figure out what dwrour election campaigns are.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you, have kunkel.

>>Slusher: I just want to point out that the City hasn't closed on all those properties from the may proposition and the ones we haven't closed on are the ones that we haven't come to an arrangement or a deal that we think is acceptable for us to make on behalf of the taxpayers. And that's the approach we take on any purchase that the city does and it's no different on this one. Thank you. That was not a question, okay?

>> fine. You haven't done all 65 million. Congratulations.

>>Goodman: Mayor. Actually, it has been awhile since I had an update on the status of that negotiation, so later on could I --.

>> We'll give you an update.

>>Goodman: it was my understanding that it was not we who were dragging our feet, but a utility that felt it had us at a disadvantage.

>> That's exactly right and you don't want to have been placed at that disadvantage to lay out a lot more money than is absolutely the right thing to do for the rate pair.

>>Slusher: I would just add that if we put a deadline on the City, then that's putting pressure on us to settle for a higher price, so I don't think that would be appropriate.

>> We'll get you a report.

>>Mayor Watson: Gus pena? Gus pena? Mr. Pena? kenneth walker? welcome Mr. Walker. James von wolske? lynn miraglia, if you would please come here. Welcome Mr. Walker. Thank you for being here.

>> Thank you very much, Mayor, Councilmembers, City staff members and members of the audience, citizens of Austin, my name is kenneth walker, I'm a partner with the law firm of walker and chambers. I'm here today representing my clients, drywall express finishers, inc. And its owner, lawrence pullen, who is in the audience with me. Drywall express is a disadvantaged business enterprise commonly known as a d.b.e.. Lawrence pulle in is an african-american and its sole shareholder. I have distributed to members of the Council a handout that should asiflt you in following the issues that I'm presenting today. As you can see from the handout, drywall express is a second tear subcontractor at Austin-Bergstrom international airport. Drywall express is providing the drywall and finishing to the airport under a subcontract with patrinos. It has a 1.2 million dollar subcontract at the airport under a subcontract with morgantz. Patrinos is providing the finishing at the airport. To the best of our knowledge, the value of that contract is around 91.8 million dollars. I'm here today to talk about a couple of policy issues that affect my client specifically and that affect the airport generally. The City of Austin requires under its d.b.e. Policy that prime contractors ensure timely payment of all subcontractors. In the d.b.e. Policy, the definition of subcontractors includes second tier subcontractors such as drywall express. The City of Austin also requires prime contracts to accurately report in writing the dollar amount of each d.b.e. Subcontract, including second tier subcontracts for purposes of calculating the prime contractor's cliens with d.b.e. Goals. Based on our investigation and the information provided by the airport and patrinos, we believe that morgantz have not complied with the policy for the following reasons. First, they have not accurately reported all d.b.e. Subcontractor participation to the airport. Specifically they failed to accurately report the subcontract with my client, drywall express. They have refused to pay drywall express the full value of drywall's subcontract. [Buzzer]. We've sought the assistance of the airport City staff on this matter. We refused to assist us because they say they have no interest in this, but under the policy, they in fact do.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you, Mr. Walker.

>> Thank you, and I'll provide additional information.

>>Lewis: I'd like to ask a question. When morgante signed the contract with the airport, was -- was drywall express listed as one of the subcontractors?

>> that's the failure of the reporting. I've got documentation that shows patrinos communicated to them that drywall express would be a subcontractor. To the best of our knowledge based on our open records request, they failed to report that to the airport.

>>Lewis: well, is patrinos, are they a d.b.e. Contractor?

>> they are not a d.b.e. Contractor. Drywall express is.

>>Lewis: all right. Okay. Is anyone here -- who is here from the airport? I'd like to ask them a question.

>> Charlie brothers is here.

>>Lewis: let me ask you a question. How hard would it be to pull the morgante's d.b.e. Participation and the contract -- the participation with the -- with patrinos and what they listed -- the people that they listed as d.b.e.?

>> it wouldn't be difficult at all, sir. I don't have that with me, of course, this afternoon. The difficulty we would have, sir, is that the drywall express was not -- is not a contractor with the City. The City's contract is with morgante. It does include goals, of course, and it does include a listing of contractors. Drywall is not listed. Patrino is not certified and of course, neither is drywall, at least in the City system, sir. We have attempted to meet with them, but so far they have declined that.

>> Tim has indicated he has some numbers. Tim, do you have some numbers?

>> good afternoon, Councilmember Lewis, I don't have the numbers with me, but we can pull morgante's participation for you.

>>Lewis: okay. I'd like to have a copy of that.

>> No problem.

>>Mayor Watson: thank y'all. The next speaker, lynn mirgalia, followed by Mr. Fernandez and then tommy eden.

>> Okay. I'm lynn miraglia and I volunteer down at the animal shelter and I came actually to speak about the lack of preparation of the wintersation at the center, however, I was there about three hours ago and actually, that has been started. So the handout that I was going to give you is objects absolute already, but there are three things that I just want to be sure don't get overlooked now that they've started to do it, I don't want it to be thought that it's actually completed. In stray two and stray three areas, they come together and form an l. In that corner there's no heat available, there's no facility there for heat. And the panels that are up above are still open, so that general area where the dogs are is still going to remain cold. Also, stray three has every other panel in and so the heat will still go out the panels that are open. And then in the adoption area, it's also l-shaped, one side of the l, the fans are working fine coming from the ceiling. The other evidently is not because they've compensate fod that by putting in a floor heater, but all that's doing is heating the aisles, not the pens. And I just wanted to be sure that everything that's possible is done. Thank you.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you. Mr. Fernandez? followed by tommy eden, then elissa fineman.

>> Good afternoon Councilmembers. I'm Mr. Fernandez. I'm from a coalition of Mexican American neighborhood associations. Today I'm basically speaking more on behalf of Mr. Donnie, who is on the holly plant closure committee who could not be here. We feel it is important that you maintain your commitment that the Council on January 19th of 1995 made of closing holly power plant units one and two. Our community and our committee has not received any information regarding the status of this closure. We would like to request that you direct the City Manager to coordinate with Mr. Donnelly as chairman of the closure committee a meeting that will provide us with an update status of the effects -- not only the effects, but it really is going to happen and what does it really mean by the closure of units one and two. And what other measures are being taken in order to remain the power plant. Because if closing or shutting the plant is from -- from operating is not what the community requested because we do not want to end up with another piece of junk just sitting in our backyard. I think this Council has a very strong position on the issues of environment and I think that it is only just that environmental justice at once be delivered to our community. I do want to briefly remind you of what's happening out there. Like out power plants they do produce pollution. It gets into your lungs and causes premature death. It causes acid raid. Nigh troe general oxide. Non-method than compound, also known as volatile organic compounds, an ingredient in ground level ozone. It interferes with the blood's ability to transport oxygen and lead zero. These are the total emissions from the holly power plant I think. And I'm using the information that was put out by ken Martin editor, april 2nd, 1996. These are the emissions that our people are realizing everyday, Mayor. I would like to see you utilize your strong leadership that you currently are being recognized for and bring the issue of the holly power plant to the forefront. This is an environmental Council. If you really are really, really serious about environmental issues in this community, the holly power plant should be at the forefront of the leadership of this Council and we should not have to wait until the year 2005. This strit is fast changing. It's changing everyday as we reach deregulation it's becoming more efficient. [Buzzer].

>>Mayor Watson: thank you, Mr. Fernandez. Tommy eden, followed by elissa fineman. Is she here? elissa fineman? e. J. White? is Mr. White here? e. J. White? I'm sorry. If you would please come over. Welcome Mr. Eden.

>> Thank you, Mayor and Councilmembers. My name is tommy eden. I'm with the bicycle advisory Council. I'm here to ask you to set up a public hearing to prohibit -- to prohibit parking in bicycle lanes throughout the City. The bicycle plan part 1 calls for the removal of parking in bicycle lanes on all existing -- on all streets that have existing bicycle lanes on a case by case basis. So far we have seen one case that has come to the urban transportation commission and in that case we are currently doing an experiment for six months to prohibit parking in the bike lanes on duval from seven a.m. To six p.m.. What I would like to see is a public hearing set for december or January to prohibit parking in all bike lanes from seven a.m. To seven p.m. If you can set up that public hearing and then arrange for action following that, we would sure appreciate it. Thank you.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you, Mr. Eden. Ms. White? is margaret reeder here? ms. White?

>> Mayor and Council persons, my name is e. J. White and I'm here today to introduce two items at Town Lake animal center. The first is the no heat situation in the animal runs. I was down there earlier today and found that some of the panels -- some of the heat is on, but in the stray 2 run, the panels are not up on both sides of it. They're up on half the windows in the back side, but there are no packages up in the front side, so basically three quarters of them are not there. It's fairly cool in that section. This is the -- this is called stray 3 and this was the first one that was in the remodeling remodeling -- that was remodeled. I don't really understand why it wasn't finished before they went on and they finished 2 and now they're into another section. I really think that one section should be finally completed before they start on something else. The new design for the runs also does not allow for any sunlight to reach into where the animals are. So there is even that possibility if there was sunshine that the animals could get out into the sun and get a little bit warm from that. I think that this shows poor planning and I'm concerned for the most helpless of creatures in a stressful and scary situation at best. Second is the fact of the poor paperwork trail at the shelter. There have been animal shelters for many years and the recordkeeping should be one of the easiest things to maintain. I have had some contact with the shelter for at least four years and the recordkeeping has always been a mess. Now that the new computer system is being used, it is even worse. I have never been able to figure this out, but I'm beginning to think it is a deliberate policy of the City and health department so that it is difficult or impossible to go back and find out what and why things happen. The experience I had with the rabbit greyhound problem in may and the more recent killing of the great dane that had been injured and was returned to shelter and killed are two recent items of poor paperwork and communication, which should be the most trouble free area of all. Thank you.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you, ms. White. Margaret Reed r. Reeder.

>> Yeah, I'm margaret read e. And have been rescuing animals and have been teaching a class in training for 10 years. This is the sixth fall in a row that animal loving citizens have had to go to city Council or to the press to ensure that the shelter animals had minimal winter protection. This year again I'm talking up our time to address this issue. Some efforts are being made and it has been started, but that's as a result of phone calls made last week and the fact that this is on the agenda, that four people were going to speak about it on the agenda. The shelter's cold, damp cement floor is very hard on animals and the fiber class pallets are very little help. When you see a lonely puppy, skinny stray or a pitiful dog laying there in a heap and shaking like a leaf, it's just heartbreaking. The environment down there is frightening and stressful enough without adding the stress of cold. I do want to tell you that this summer in august on 101 degree day I realized that the overhead fans were not on. After questions and phone calls, they started -- apparently no one knew they were supposed to be on or remembered. Finally by the end of the summer, the fans were started. These are the heater fans and they can be rigged to do air circulation, but, again, you know, volunteers were so upset that they even offered to buy ceiling fans because even when the fans were started, the adoption run fans never did work. That's a head up that adoption heaters are not going to be working and sure enough half of them are not working and here we are again. I don't know why I or we should be telling the management to turn on the -- to turn on the fans in the summer when it's 100 degrees or that it's wintertime and to do winter preparations. It's november 5th. We shouldn't be just starting now. The summer and winter come every year. I'm sorry, but we keep bothering you for the same problem. The complete -- complaints and problems at Town Lake animal management continue and this is just another issue of they're appalling lack of concern for the animals. We're trying to achieve a no kill mihm and we can't even keep them warm. Stress increases health problems in the animals and then we have to kill the ill animals. I don't see how that fits into the no kill millenium plan. I beg you to get these preparations completed as soon as possible. Thank you. [One moment, please] and which is where we actually work. And ultimately we received reduction of force notices indicating that we would no longer have jobs as of december 1st, 1998. At that time I was told by my supervisors not to worry because there were two sanitarian positions which are open in the health department which is where I worked prior to moving to solid waste. And that I could be moved back into one of these positions without any problem. At one time I was also told that if I wanted to remain on the county pay roll one of these positions could be made county direct. Suddenly a few weeks ago everything changed. I found out that a change from City to county direct could not be done and that the sanitary positions were no longer an available option because now the they work in the private sewage facility program had been rifted and those positions were being held for them. With only a few weeks left in my rift period I am left without one of these positions to move into and at the end of the month where I had depended on what I was being told to do by my supervisors, it now looks as if I have no other options. I realize you, the members of the Council, have nothing to do with the restructuring that the county commissioners and I realize you have a committee working to find a slotion to the solid waste enforcement issue. But the main problem remains that come december 1st I no longer have a job. What I'm here to ask you today is that you allow me or direct appropriate City personnel to make me eligible for consideration for one of these positions which are still open and so that I will at least have a chance to remain employed in the health department until the solid waste enforcement issue has been resolved by the committee. And I would like to say that the committee has been meeting regularly and things are moving in a positive direction. Thank you.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you, sir.

>>Lewis: Mayor, let me ask a question.

>>Spelman: I'll defer to Councilmember Lewis.

>>Lewis: let me ask a question. You said you worked as an enforcement officer.

>> Yes, sir, solid waste enforcement officer.

>>Lewis: was that for illegal dumping or --

>> yes, sir, that's illegal dumping of all types of solid waste throughout the City and county.

>>Lewis: so if they are going to rift those then we don't have any enforcement officers anymore?

>> well, what actually happened, at a commissioner's meeting back in back, the commissioners just on a whim I guess I could say, they decided to move the positions that are currently at bruise elfant's constable precinct 5 office over to the sheriff's office. Myself and the other members of the staff at the health department, we figured okay, they are moving the positions, they are going to take the people too. They didn't do that because the sheriff's office is civil service, so rather than taking the two trained investigators and putting them in those positions, they gave us rift notices and are going to fill those positions with investigators out of the sheriff's department. And I cannot say what level of service they will give to the City at this time.

>>Lewis: the -- let me ask, City Manager, do we do the -- do the commissioners court give us any notice when they -- when it's in the interlocal agreement when they are going to make a change?

>> I have no idea. They should give notice. I don't know how they gave notice in this instance. Marsha, are you aware?

>> basically the way the interlocals are Written, they either give notice or basically they take their funding and place it elsewhere the programs actually discontinue. In this instance it's a little more complicated. The employees are employed as Travis County employees. That is when the county decided to reallocate the program to the sheriff's office and they went for -- decided to use enforcement offices frx they received rift notices. Technically the City's obligation is not there because they in fact are county employees. What we did agree to do and we are in the process of doing and I actually received the report is that we decided to put together a team of City department individuals as well as work with the county in terms of looking at an illegal dumping program. We will have some recommendations in terms of doing that. If we decide we still want to have this program, we have the opportunity to hire those employees as City employees. They probably will not be hired as county employees. I haven't really read what the recommendation would be. Basically what we're trying to do is look at options to continue an illegal dumping program but it would be funded through the City. It's a little more complicated because the funding for the program right now, prior to the changes, were funded through the solid waste services department. They actually fund a position. So it's a little more complicated, but we're trying to work out a program. What will happen is those individuals at the -- the recommendation is continue with the program, be hired as City employees.

>>Lewis: did -- so they didn't send us a notice that as of 1th h.st of december we wouldn't have to -- 1st of december we wouldn't have to fund this position?

>> they decided to change the fte's. Instead of having them paid as health employees they transferred them to the sheriff's office. Because they were county direct they were county employees.

>> He's made a request to see if there were some positions we might work with him in terms of employment because december 1st is the day. Let's get your report in terms of how this transpired and how the county we want about making its decision.

>>Lewis: well, what I'm trying to find out is on an interlocal agreement, it's an agreement between two people, the county and the City. And if they are just going to change it without notifying us then we need --.

>>Mayor Watson: and we can take care of that. Instead of using the citizens communication period to take care of an agenda item let's try to get the information that way.

>>Spelman: I just want to confirm what's the time line on getting that report back to us?

>> initially the time line was trying to get it done within 60 days. I just received the report a little while ago. We'll work on it in the next week or so. I haven't read it.

>>Spelman: we have a report in hand and there is enough time to deal with Mr. Rudder's problem?

>> yes.

>> Yes, thank you very much for your time.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you, Mr. Rudder. That takes us to the consent agenda. The items available to be passed on consent as I understand it for right now, if you have items that could be added, let me read through the consent agenda --.

>>Lewis: let me put a couple items back on. I would like to put 22 and 34 back on the consent agenda.

>>Mayor Watson: okay. Before we go to the consent agenda, let me recognize Councilmember Griffith gril thank you, a point of privilege, please. I have something I would like to share with the community. It has just come to my attention that keep america beautiful has announced its award winners. And Austin has fared well in the awards process. One group in particular has earned a first place in the nation aword for their volunteer efforts. It began last year in the will low run neighborhood. This was a rental community, of four-plexes with a majority of absentee landowners. And it will fallen victim to crime, economic decay and apathy. They could do little to revitalize and restore their neighborhood, but with the help of the south river City citizens they began to fight back. They cleaned, they repaired fences, built corals for dufrp sters, planted 88 shrubs to beautify the neighborhood and joined forces with youth options to clean the entire creek corridor. Following the cleanup, they planted 66 red bud oak and pecan trees in front of the homes in the neighborhood. This once crime riddled area has been restored for friends and family to flourish. Please help me say thank you and congratulations to the south river City citizens for lending a hand, not pointing a finger. They really do exemplify Austin's volunteer spirit. Jeff hon and renee berrera, will you please come forward? [applause].

>>Griffith: best in america. [Applause].

>> Thank you, Councilmember Griffith. Mr. Mayor, it's nice to be here, nice to see all the Councilmembers. I'm jeff hon with motorola. And for the past two years have been working at president of the organization. I'll tell you that this is the right way to come to see the City Council. This is my favorite time of the year when we do receive our keep america beautiful nomination. Last year I got to come and tell you about our first place in the nation award as a chapter. And it is -- continues to be a wonderful place for us as a great public, private partnership within this community to make a contribution. I'm so pleased that other award winners were part of the process too. We had banca, a nine-year-old win the award for her efforts to clean up the community over there. [Applause]. The coca-cola company along with longhorn and bfi and east man chemical have also initiated a project along with the university of Texas called longhorn recycle roundup and that process that happens at every u.t. Home football game won second place in the nation. As did a keep Austin beautiful project that was sponsored inti advanced micro devices, motorola and several other couples who participated in creating a small business awareness course for how to incorporate money saving environmental conservation processes into their businesses. So very pleased to be a part of that organization, keep Austin beautiful continues to be a vibrant place for us to make contributions and I want to turn it over right now to renee to talk about the south Austin river City citizens activity and thank him for doing the right kind of thing for this community. It makes it one of the best in the nation. Renee, thank you very much.

>> Thank you. Good afternoon. Thank you Councilmember Griffith kpor raising this surprise and I know they are shocked because I didn't tell them and I think them being here, it's hard to drag them up to a Council meeting, you can imagine. But thank you. I am also humbled by the fact you are taking time out to --.

>>Mayor Watson: we take that as a compliment.

>> Yes. I'm humble td you are taking time out, you have a busy schedule. I will try to be brief. I appreciate you recognizing south Austin and the neighborhood association. First of all, Mayor and Councilmembers and City manager, who made this happen, basically we all did. I mean everyone. Basically with people like residents and property owners like wendy and ron, you can see why. People like susie and michael, you can see that it keeps on -- I can keep on going, there were so many people involved in this. Srcc has about 10,000 residents, which is 4600 households and it's about five neighborhoods in one. It's a large area, but people know us sometimes as travis heights and I think we want to show on our aerial we carry around the willow run area, it's a beautiful place. And we're very proud. There are so many undiscovered gems in every community and willow run is that gem. South Austin was what really transformed that area. If you all can come over here, that's where the camera I think is, and show the Council. I always turn the map -- arrows upside down. Kent butler is here and he shows me the proper way which is north, but to me -- this is willow right here. I like to put the south on top. But it's about basically so many people that helped. I'm going to list a few. Jim, tom with pbs, Austin police department, watershed protection agency, environmental hotline, travis county health department, youth options, January fog ellison's neighborhood, Mr. Miller's neighborhood and the residents. St. Edwards loaned us rooms for meetings to organize. Dave dickson asked what I was going to do about this area, gang activity, crimes, you hear sometimes gunshots late at night, it wasn't as scary as I'm trying to make it sound but it was something I needed to get involved with in the community -- and the community let us be stewards for that. It does go back to the fact it makes Austin what it is, people helping each other and pulling together. Let me tell you a secret, Mayor, if I may, I saw -- this is during lunchtime. Wendy and ronnie out there, on this -- this is like you see a large area, maybe 100 four-plexes out there on the curb painting the numbers of the streets for each resident and nobody asked them to do that, it was basically on a hot summer day out there on this concrete writing in 3624, 3626, keep on going. And they did that. That's what it's really about. And so again, that's what makes america what it is about. I think being recognized nationally is really an honor for them as well as the City of Austin. Let me finally wrap up. I believe it's a comprehensive community and that's how we work, not that we are they of yesterday, but we are trying to find mutually beneficial outcomes and work together. So I look forward to the -- these -- working more with partnerships like this and two things coming up of course, south Congress and also the revitalization there, and we'll need everyone's help in that to continue the progress we're making. And next Monday is the media event on south Congress at the Austin allen park where we will be unveiling another surprise, another positive moment for south Austin as well as Austin. I'll let you have the podium back. I do congratulate Mrs. -- Forgot her name, beranda from travis hitsz. It's a pleasure she won it. I look forward to hopefully her being neighborhood president soon.

>>Griffith: you made us all proud. Thank you.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you. [Applause]. Items available for passage on the consent agenda are -- yes, Councilmember Slusher.

>>Slusher: I'll put 14 back on. My question has been answered.

>>Mayor Watson: anything else that wants to go back on?

>>Garcia: 77 can go back.

>>Mayor Watson: all right. Items for passage on consent agenda, 14, 15, 21, 22, 23, 24 25, 27, 28, 29, 30 in the amount of $124,000, 31 in the amount of $119,001. 33, 34, 36, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45 46, 48, 53, 56, 59, 60, 77 And 78. I'll entertain a motion.

>>Spelman: move approval.

>>Mayor Watson: motion made by Councilmember Spelman to approve the consent agenda. Seconded by Councilmember Griffith.

>>Garcia: Mayor?

>>Mayor Watson: yes, Councilmember Garcia.

>>Garcia: you skipped over 49. Is that because it's a discussion item or --.

>>Mayor Watson: I indicated that you had pulled that yesterday.

>>Garcia: no, I didn't. That can go back. It's not listed in here.

>>Mayor Watson: well, you pulled it yesterday. So we'll put it back on. Item 49. Motion made by Councilmember Spelman. Do you consider that a friendly amendment?

>>Spelman: very friendly.

>>Mayor Watson: Councilmember Griffith you made the second. Do you consider that a friendly?

>>Griffith: yes.

>>Mayor Watson: I wondered why in the world is he pulling the dates. So do you want to pull it?

>>Garcia: no, because I don't think I can get the votes for this. [Laughter].

>>Mayor Watson: we have two people signed up to speak on the consent agenda. Rafael quintanilla. Do you wish to speak on the consent agenda? he is speaking on item no. 43. And lydia grass is also here to speak to item 43. If you will follow Mr. Quintanilla.

>> Mayor, lydia is giving me her time.

>>Mayor Watson: is she here.

>> Yes.

>>Mayor Watson: you will have up to six minutes if you need it.

>> Mayor, City Council members City Manager I'm here representing time warner cable. Time warner has a non-exclusive cable franchise to serve the entire City of Austin. Time warner objects to the proposed link star franchise because we believe its requirements are different from that award to do time warner. And in that regard it creates a competitive disadvantage to time warner. Sections 2.5 and section 4.12 of time warner's franchise with the City of Austin specifically state that any new cable franchises will be competitively neutral. To set this issue in context, it must be recognized that fierce competition already exist in the dwx of video programming. Time warner -- distribution of video programming. Time warner already has several, particularly true in the area oFAAtment complexes. As a cable provider, time warner is the only video distributor who has obtained a franchise and committed itself to a lorng term relationship which also addresses certain community needs as identified in a series of public hearings. It provides several channels for public education and government use. It has built an institution network. These services meet community needs throughout the City of Austin. Time warner believes that to n sure competitive neutrality, any new fran cheesy must commit itself to serving the entire City and share equally in the cost of providing for community needs. The length star franchise being proposed allows link star to decline to serve anyone it wishes not to serve within the City of Austin. And it allocates the cost of meeting community needs on a per subscriber basis. Time warner anticipates that link star will only choose to serve those apartment complexes which can be served as a lower cost or higher profitability in effect cherry picking the best customers from a cost effective perspective. It will be in a position to charge lower rates than time warner which serves all areas whether cost effective or not. Again, competition is not new to time warner, and the size of link star is not the issue. It could just as easily be a giant telecommunications provider seeking a similar franchise. The issue is whether the proposed franchise leads to an uneven playing field. Clearly link star is authorized to discriminate among the residents of Austin and to pick and choose whom it will serve and where it will serve. This is wrong and contradictory to the terms of the time warner franchise. There are also a number of other areas in which this franchise is unfair to time warner cable. Let me give you some examples. If a I-net extension to a City facility must be done, it will be up to time warner cable to plan, engineer, build and maintain it. Link star will not be required to do that. Time warner cable must provide free subscriber network services to City facilities. Link star will not be required to serve City facilities. Time warner cable must provide service to schools throughout the City. Link star will not be required to do that. Time warner cable is required to repair access equipment at no charge. Link star will not be required to do that. Time warner cable is required to provide at no charge a facility and the personnel to play back videotapes of programming on the access channels on a 24-hour a day seven-day a week basis. Link star will not be required to do that. Time warner cable is required to provide a fund of $4 million in capital equipment to support I-net construction and the purchase of access equipment. That is a flat fee that must be paid regardless of gain or loss of customers. Link star's capital commitment will be indexed to number of customers so that it will be reduced if they ever lose customers. In addition, this indexing has the effect of putting link star on a pay as you go -- kind of a pay as you go plan under which their capital cup sort will amount to practically nothing in the early years of their operation in Austin. For those reasons, we -- time warner objects to this proposed franchise to link star. Thank you.

>>Goodman: thank you. Do you want to --.

>>Garcia: did we have anybody here from cable regulatory?

>> ed was here earlier. There he is. Michael, were you the one going to anxious the questions? I didn't mean to jump ahead of you.

>> Both of us will.

>>Mayor Watson: Council have any questions?

>>Garcia: yes. We had understood that there were only minor -- as a matter of fact, you indicated that I think at the telecommunications commission meeting that it is similar to time warner pretty much. Mr. Quintanilla pointed to quite a few, a long laundry list of differences between the two franchises. I would like for you to comment on those to the extent that you can.

>> We don't -- we've met with time warner and we're not in agreement that we have that many disagreements or that there is that difference. We're speaking with them, we're trying to take a small cable system or a smaller cable system and apply what we have as a larger cable system type scenario. There are differences as far as the build-out requirement and we are meeting with time warner and we have scheduled meetings over the next couple of weeks to try to resolve a lot of these perceived differences or actual differences. We truly feel that there are very small differences between link star's franchise and -- or the proposed franchise for link star and for time warner. But we do recognize that there may be some interpretation problems and we're working through time warner with those.

>>Garcia: today we're doing only first reading. Is this one of those franchises that takes 30 days?

>> yes.

>> Yes, sir.

>>Garcia: so we will do second sometime in november.

>> On december 5th. What I would like to do, Councilmembers, since --.

>>Garcia: you better not do it december 5th. It's a saturday.

>> The first thursday of december. Maybe it's december 3rd.

>>Mayor Watson: december 3rd.

>> Yeah, december 3rd. Since there is a number of ways to solve these legal issues, what I would like to do is bring them to the committee in executive session and to the extent there is some policy decisions to be made, you know, you can address them there. You know, we did say that just as general background, the provision that Mr. Quintanilla referred to that says that any other franchise is going to be competitively neutral, it goes on to say on a per subscriber basis.

>>Garcia: okay.

>>Mayor Watson: this is on first reading.

>>Garcia: I move approval. Well actually -- it's part of the consent agenda.

>>Mayor Watson: part of the consent agenda. We have one person signed up to speak on item 34 which had been pulled but is back on. Is henry olivarez here? he had signed up in favor. All right. The consent agenda --

>> is it possible to plead surprise and sign up for consent agenda at this point for something which I thought it was going to be discussed? item 45.

>>Mayor Watson: hang on a second. Item no. 45 Was not pulled at any point in time.

>> No.

>> Last month Council told us to go away and work with City staff and our engineers and come back and try to address drainage issues and we did that, we've been working a lot for the last month and then I come back and find out you don't want to hear what we've done. I just wanted a chance to tell you --.

>>Mayor Watson: tell you what, what I'm going to do is pull it because I don't understand what it is you are telling me. We'll come back and I'll try to get an explanation. Item no. 45. And I suppose Councilmember Spelman you would consider that friendly.

>>Spelman: I was going to suggest that.

>>Mayor Watson: Councilmember Griffith as maker of the second? all right. Let me read through the consent agenda again real rapidly so we know what we're voting on. 14, 15, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 27 28, 29D, 30 at $124,000, 31 at $119,100, 33, 34, 36, 41, 42, 43, 44, 46, 48, 49.

>> 50.

>>Mayor Watson: you put 50 back on?

>>Lewis: 51 back on.

>>Spelman: that's okay with me.

>>Mayor Watson: hang on. Let me read the rest and we'll put it back on. 53, 56, 59, 60, 77 And 78. Kmsz would you consider putting 50 and 51 back on as friendly amendments?

>>Spelman: yes.

>>Mayor Watson: Councilmember Griffith?

>>Griffith: yes.

>>Mayor Watson: all right. Motion has been made and seconded. Any further discussion? hearing none, all those in favor say aye. Opposed say no. Motion carries. It is 3:30. I will entertain a motion to recess the City Council meeting so we can convene the bort of directedders meeting of the Austin housing finance corporation. Is there a motion? mox made by Councilmember daughters. Secretaried by the Mayor pro tem. Any discussion? hearing none, all those in favor say aye. Opposed say no. Motion carries. We're in recess as a City Council. I'll call to order the board of directors of the Austin housing finance corporation and we will take up item no. 57. I'll recognize Mr. Hilgers, if he is prepared to speak. Oh, okay. Mr. Martinez good to see you. Please.

>> The item before sue approval of the sale of bonds to finance the acquisition of the rutland place 2. The total, there's a minor correction of $12,590 as opposed to what is on your list there. It's composed of 12,12,000 of bonds at 6 and a half percent interest and 465,000 of taxable bonds at 8.5% interest. And it's for the acquisition of the rutland place.

>> What place?

>> rutland place 1 and 2.

>>Mayor Watson: does the board have any questions?

>>Lewis: yes, I have a question. Does that change the financing fee revenue?

>> it will be one-half of the total amount, yes.

>>Lewis: I meanwhile I'm looking -- we went to 590.

>> It will be multiplied out, total bonds time .5.

>>Lewis: that's all the questions.

>>Mayor Watson: anybody else have any questions? I'll entertain a motion with regard to item no. 57.

>>Garcia: so moved.

>>Mayor Watson: motion made by board member Garcia and seconded by vice president good man. Any further discussion? hearing horg. Opposed say no. Motion carries on item 57. I will reconvene the City Council of Austin, Texas and I would entertain a motion to recess to go into executive session. Purpose would be to engage in private consultation with our attorney pursuant to section 551.071 of the Texas government coat to discuss ls ranch limited versus the skaus no. 971934 In the hays county district court and to discuss cotera versus state of Texas in civil ax a 9 ca 34 jn in the United States disk court. We would also have a discussion of real estate matters pursuant to section 551.072 of the Texas government code. To discuss lease of City owned downtown property. Is there a motion?

>>Slusher: so moved.

>>Mayor Watson: seconded by Councilmember Spelman. Any discussion? hearing none, all those in favor say aye. Opposed say no. Motion carries. We are recessed to go into executive session. Cdbg test test this is a test, test test this is a test, abcdefg, test test this is a test,

>>Slusher: excuse me, let me say this again. The oak hill Austin stampede girls bonnie league softball team, they -- [applause] -- and there are quite a few parents in attendance that we are happy to have in the chamber. They are the runner up this year in the national championship. This is the trophy they got for that. Went through around five elimination tournaments to get there. And were -- came in second from a team from round rock. They are building a dynasty here because they were the champion last year. We also have with us duke altman the head coach, and roy roy dismuke. Let me read this proclamation for you that we are proud of you here in the City of Austin. And so therefore be it known by these presents that on behalf of Kirk Watson, Mayor of the City of Austin, do here by proclaim november 5th, 1998, as oak hill Austin stampede pony girls fast pitch softball national champion runner up day in Austin! [applause]

>>Slusher: that's a long day. I call on all citizens to join me in congratulating the oak hill Austin stampede girls, 10 and younger, fast pitch softball team for their capture of the 1998 pony national champion runner up position in the tournament held in evansville indiana in august, 1998. Also in recognizing the spirit of these girls who displayed character, commitment and courage by practicing and playing throughout the summer heat wave and in recognizing -- it was hot this year, even for Texas. It's probably cool in comparison up in indiana. Recognizing all of the team members as ambassadors representing the Austin area, promoting community pride and family participation in youth sports activities, while gathering memories of a lifetime and in celebrating this accomplishment with these remarkable and talented young people and wish being this team all of the best in the future, signed by Mayor Kirk Watson. I present this to the pitchers, jennifer altman and margaret hapman on behalf of the whole team. You all can decide how you want to post it. Channel 6 wants to take a photograph, we will go over here and stand and pose for a photograph. You all can get one. [Applause]

>> thanks a bunch.

>>Mayor Watson: I will call the City Council back to order. Several items may take some time. I am going to go item no. 20 First, then item 13, then item 26, and we will just see how it goes from there. So it will be 20, 13, and 36. Hang on, before we go to 20 I have got to get somebody here. Council what I have indicated we are going to do is go 20, 13, and then 26. 20 Was set for a time certain, so I am going to call it up first, then 13, then go to 36. I will recognize Councilmember Slusher.

>>Slusher: what?

>>Mayor Watson: I meant to say 20, 13, 26. Councilmember Slusher does --.

>>Slusher: does the staff want to make a presentation or go straight to the speakers? Mayor, think there are a number of speakers signed up.

>>Mayor Watson: two.

>>Slusher: let's have the speakers first. Larry lobash? if you will please come forward. Stephen bowman. Is Mr. Bowman here. If you will come over to this microphone. Welcome, Mr. Lowbash.

>> Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Councilmembers. To begin, I am the homeowners association president of the condominiums that abutt Mr. Bowman's property. What I understand is at issue here is Mr. Bowman is proposing a style of building, green building, that is meeting some opposition to city code and he's requesting variance for what he's attempting to do. The bone of contention, as I understand it, is the impervious ground cover, how much rain water actually hits the lot and can be drained off varies the structure that is on that lot. To begin, what Mr. Bowman is attempting to do is green building. Austin considers itself a champion in that regard. Yet the facts are there's only 10% of the homes being built that are actually green buildings. With these green buildings, there's a rating up to 5 stars. There is only one building in the City of Austin that meets the five star requirement, Mr. Bowman is attempting to bill the second home. He has taken a pro active stance in an environmental issue. He is attempting to build a home, a series of homes, a condominium, in conjunction with the environment. I don't understand why that's not being promoted. I understand the reasons for codes. What I don't understand is if the code is not adequately prepared to accept the scope of what he's doing. If we have a code that can't judge something that has a far greater benefit than any problems it can produce, why is it up for scrutiny? it seems to me a no brainer. The house exceeds the standards, what he's proposing to build exceeds all of the standards and it is 100% funded by the individuals. There's no government money involved in this. They are willing to put their building up for scrutiny as a showcase. Again, if it exceeds all of the standards that currently exist, where could the opposition come from? thank you, Councilmembers. Mr. Mayor.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you, Mr. Bowman.

>> Thank you. My name is steve bowman, I am one of the partner of the millennium group, what we are proposing to do is take a half acre site, put four units on it as opposed to nine allowed by zoning and rain water harvest all of the roofs to control the storm water. We will be putting the water back into the ground through drip irrigation and what that will do is increase the grown water flows that go back to the aquifer. The impervious cover is over on the percentage basis. It's over slightly. It's 53% as opposed to 40, but what's being done with the rain water harvesting is we are capturing 83% of the water that falls on our impervious cover. And we are holding that, we are actually deeping it -- keeping it on the site. The original reasons for the impervious cover rulings was to not have a lot of water running off the site. What we are trying to do is keep it on the site, put it back into the ground where it belongs and basically mitigate the impervious cover. The project is an educational project, which will be viewed by the public for a period of approximately a year. The four homes that are there will be built to the green star standards, four and five star. They will have a lot of very progressive features such as geo thermal heat pumps, cooling chimneys and the like. And the relationship that we have with the drip irrigation and the impervious cover is similar to what happened with automobiles, let's say. When speed limits were imposed, it was a control over the automobile. As the roads got redesigned, cars got better and the like, what happened was those rules were modified to help fit new safety standards, components and the like. What we are saying is that the impervious cover is a very british rule. It will -- a very beneficial rule. It will always be more, it needs more detail that makes it more functional for things that weren't in the code when the code was Written 30 some years ago. We are asking that the Council approve an ordinance for a pilot project so the City agencies can harvest the data, if you will, that will be coming off of the project and they will actually have a physical real life scenario to take numbers from and know how it behaves. With all of the development moving into Austin, this makes good logical sense because if we can improve development and make it so it hasless impact on the environment, what that will do is it will I go constantly lower the amount of runoffs that are going downstream and affecting everybody else downstream from it. And when you look at the inner city areas with the vacant lots that are going to be built, if we do this sort of thing, it will lower the impacts of that development. And then that development will be coming. We thank you, I ask for your support in the ordinance.

>>Spelman: just a moment. One of the questions I think we are going to be getting from people that are concerned about this project, I think there's general agreement within the whole City this is the sort of thing we ought to be doing, trying out, seeing how well it works. I think the question is the people are going to be asking is this the right place to do it, you are in the drinking water protection zone, al be it just a block, you are in the dry creek watershed, that increases the risks to our drinking water supply. Given that, why is the right site to be doing this in.

>> Being in the drinking water zone is an ir, there's no question. As you look at the development that's occurring and going to be occurring in tarrytown, where you have impervious cover over the years, redevelopment, it will show examples of how that redevelopment can be dealt with to lower the impact of the impervious cover. If you can mitigate the impervious cover and show substantial results of that, so you are basically removing a -- more than what you are duaning, if you are giving back to the environment 115% of what you are getting, then it makes sense to do that. As you look at the draw down of the elk first that are occurring over the years, aquifers that are occurring over the years, it's because there's more and more runoff down sfraem instead of back into the ground. What we are proposing is putting the water back into the ground so it filters narmly back into the elk first and drinking water. More to the state when there wasn't any development in the area at all. In answer to your question, I think being in the drinking water zone, although it is an issue, it's not as significant because we are mitigating the impacts coming off of the site. The water on the site, 155% more water will go into the ground than what's currently going into the ground on the undeveloped site.

>> On the other hand this is an experiment, we haven't done this before. One of the reasons that you are arguing in favor of it, it's interesting to me because we haven't done it before, we will be able to learn whatever mistakes, whatever successes we have to do it elsewhere. Couldn't we learn just as much from a site outside the drinking water protection zone?

>> I don't know the specific sites. In any case we can learn from this type of technology being put in place. We happen to own this lot. We bought this lot looking at doing a project and the storm water became the issue. I think that the perk las vegas of the site itself has some -- percolation has some benefit. The risk of the site is almost non-existent. If the entire system breaks down, for whatever reason, most of it relies on gravity, if it should break down the impacts upon the environment are very, very small.

>>Spelman: small risks because this is a small site?

>> because it's a small site, also the perocity of the existing site, the soil that's there has a lot of fill on it. The capacities that are there of that site.

>>Spelman: we are not really draining very much off the site into other people's property right now as it is.

>> Some drains off, but not a great deal compared to other sites in the area.

>>Spelman: okay.

>>Lewis: I have a question.

>>Mayor Watson: Councilmember Goodman?

>>Lewis: let me ask you a question. You said you captured 83% of this rainfall that falls on the impervious cover -- on the covered area. If you would calculate that into reducing the impervious cover, what would it equal?

>> the net effect on the site, if you take the amount of the -- what we are harvesting is the roofs. That's roughly 58 --66 square feet. If you take that and subtract that from the impervious cover, it leaves 8.8%.

>> Okay. That's what I was trying to get because if you were tale -- you are actually taking that impervious cover away is what you are saying?

>> correct.

>>Lewis: instead of it being 53, it would be done like -- down like 10 probably.

>> 8.82 I believe it is.

>>Lewis: thank you.

>>Mayor Watson: other questions?

>>Lewis: that's all that I have.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you, very much, Mr. Bowman. I will entertain a motion with regard to item no. 20.

>> I signed up to speak.

>>Mayor Watson: how come, Mr. Bunch, I never get your cards. Mr. Bill bunch, followed by matt holland.

>> Thank you, Mayor, Councilmembers, Bill bunch here on behalf of the save our springs alliance to speak against this, for a number of very specific reasons. First, I think it's important for you to know that initially they simply did what you would normally do in this instance and that is request a variance to the impervious cover limits. That variance was recommended denial by the staff and was denied by the planning commission. Then we got this new label of pilot project. A real pilot project is a real experiment, it's something small, with the idea of looking forward to it being something big down the road. I don't see that thought process here. What I see is a rather inventive way to get around impervious cover limits. We have seen those over and over and over again and it's wearing a lot of people out. Having to fight the same issue over and over again. You can do the rain water harvesting, you can do green building and comply with the impervious cover limits. We should not allow anybody to call themselves green builder and violate impervious cover limits. Especially out in the drinking water protection zone. If you are going to do this, this is going to be a pilot project, then let's say we are going to study it for 10 years, we are going to get the results, and we are not going to prove any others like this -- approve any others like this in any rubric until we have the results from this experience. Otherwise every guy who wants to dodge impervious cover limits is going to say, I want to be a pilot project, too. Really, a pilot project is something that really is thought through as an experiment with something down the road. I -- I just don't see that here. I really don't. It's particularly disturbing to me that our green builder time, our staff time is going into figuring out how to pave more than we should. When we still today don't have our impervious cover limits, implemented accurately and fairly, the staff has known for years now that the way they estimate impervious cover for single family is off by huge amounts. So that when we say 125, we are really getting 25. When we say 30, we are really getting 40 or 50. It's really disturbing to me that staff is spending time on these kind of projects when real fundamentals, basics are not being fixed. Basics that should have been fixed a long time ago. Thank you.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you, Mr. Bunch. Matt holland.

>>Spelman: he would like to direct a question to Mr. Bunch, if I could.

>>Mayor Watson: okay.

>>Spelman: bill, I am a little confused here. What's it is purpose of impervious cover limitations?

>> impervious cover is a very good indicator of a number of things. One is the hydro logic aspect of preventing the infiltration. And that's what's proposed to be addressed with this system that requires continuous maintenance, repair, et cetera, which just limiting impervious cover doesn't. You do it once, it's done. The other thing that impervious cover limits do, which I do not see here at all, is it's a measure, an indicator of pollutant loading. You know, looking at a source and trying to reduce pollution at its source. And that's sort of an indicator of how much loading you get based on how many cars and how much development goes with impervious cover. Now, I don't see that being addressed here.

>>Spelman: the impression that I've been getting is -- I am not an engineer, certainly not a hydro geologist, but if you help me walk through this. With the rain water harvesting program that Mr. Bowman is proposing here, that would, if it works, solve the infiltration problem, would it not?

>> for the part that they harvest. I am not sure how much of what they are harvesting.

>>Spelman: basically all of the roofs, they cut the driveways in half so you have got the skid marks for your cars to go over and it's my impression it's about 93% of all of the impervious cover on the site is roof top and they are harvesting all of that. So if they were right, they were actually able to infiltrate all of the water that came off the roof top, we are talking about an impervious cover reduction from 50% to like 5% or something like that. Now, again that -- that depends on whether or not their engineering works, we don't know whether it's going to work or not.

>> Right.

>>Spelman: I think almost all of the impervious cover is going to be harvested through this program. And if it work, then that would deal with the first objection, would it not?

>> right.

>>Spelman: the second one, pollutant loading stuff, is that just how much density of activity, how many cars that you have got?

>> right.

>>Spelman: if you are dealing with a rain water harvesting program, which is supposed to be cleaning the water after it rains off or after it drips on to the site, then if this is supposed to be self cleaning before it infill traits into the aquifer or into the watershed here, that would help to deal with the second problem, would it not?

>> well, if it does that, but I don't see how you self clean. I mean, automobiles and all of the other stuff that goes with development, where is that pollution going.

>>.

>>Spelman: I guess if you are talking about water draining on to the site, it's getting clean because it's falling into the upon, that may not be true. If we are talking about acid rain, that would be the case. That's not really the issue you are talking about, either. You are talking about stuff rolling off the roads.

>> Fertilizers, pesticide, waste from garbage can areas, pets. That whole host of pollutants.

>> Wouldn't all of that stuff depend on -- on non-impervious cover, though? if you have a big lawn, it seems to me that a big lawn fertilized would put more fertile --

>> yeah, some of it is a fertilizer. And what your landscaping is.

>>Spelman: it doesn't seem to me there's a one to one correspondence as far as that pollutant loading goes as far as impervious cover and the amount of pollutant loading that you are going to get. Like it may be the other way.

>> For different pollutants it varies, you are right, but if you look at all of the studies around, sort of collapse them, impervious cover is the best indicator of pollutant loading. Because it's a rough measure of the polluting activities, more impervious cover, generally means more polluting activities. Less impervious cover generally means less polluting activities.

>>Spelman: that's an issue, though, that we could get a finer point on. By collecting further information. I guess. If we actually did the experiment, we actually had put into this pilot project --

>> we want to say this is our test case, we are going to do this, we are not going to have everybody else line up to do test cases, then it is a relatively small site and maybe that's okay. But if we are just deciding that we are going to get rid of impervious cover limits, you know, for anybody who comes up with an r a niflt tee -- a nifty new engineering trick, then we need to talk about that.

>>Spelman: I understand. Thanks.

>>Mayor Watson: [inaudible].

>> Good evening, Mayor, members of Council. I'm matt holland, I work for loomis and moore engineering, planning and environmental services. I have served as a consultant to the millennium group on the mia tia projects. We have developed the water calculations for the rain water system. I've had the pleasure of working on numerous watershed analysis projects with the city of Austin, including the barton springs zone retrofit master plan, Waller Creek water quality and flood control study and presently the watershed's master plan for the City's 17 phase I watersheds. In all of these studies, we've had -- we've been trying to find ways to protect urban creeks. We have always found a problem with severe restrictions in finding physical locations to put these structural controls, such as ponds, said mentation, filtration base since. In every study we have recognized the unique and potentially exemplary role that rain water harvesting could play in retrofiting these urban United Statesed areas. We would like to offset the effects of impervious cover while providing other outstanding benefits of water conservation an landscape beautification. I think we are talking about a different kind of animal with rain water harvesting than we are on the -- with the other pond approaches that the City has in its code now in the sense we are getting back to a predevelopment or staying closer to a predevelopment hydrologic regimen. I don't think it's a nifty trick. This is a proven technology. We don't have water quality studies done on this. It's more from a water supply standpoint that we have data. But I see this -- I see this project as being a very good opportunity for the City to start collecting data, look at a very aggressively applied approach on this particular site. One of the difficulties with rain water harvesting is that you are dealing almost by nature with private land site. So the City can't just go in and say you are going to use rain water harvesting, we have to encourage its use. So I think this mia tia project unites a lot of these things we have been talking about. It offers a way to tis as a pilot project under direct city supervision this beneficial technology. By studying and monitoring this well designed project, we can gauge how the City can encourage its water use with greater confidence. We have -- I've studied this site, I have run the appropriate calculations, we have an 18 year rainfall simulation. Essentially it's included in the 1991 memorial day flood, we found there was no runoff from this -- during any point. We are using such as overdesigned system that it's going to really have a staggering effect on the hide logic regimen. (Buzzer).

>> I strongly encourage you to pass this ordinance, get this underway. I think --.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you, Mr. Holland. Those are all of the people that have signed up to speak on this item, I will entertain a motion with regard to item no. 20.

>>Slusher: let me say something first before I make a motion, if I could. Councilmember Spelman and I put this on the agenda for discussion because it has been moving through the City's system. I think our green building program officials like the project and want to proceed with it. I have a very interesting letter from Mr. Doxey about it, who is our -- the director of the sustainable communities initiative. I agree with Mr. Bunch that we shouldn't do a bunch of these pilot projects, what we should do is go ahead and do this one and see how it worns, obtain data from that. Even then I don't see this as a vehicle to increase impervious cover in the drinking protection zone. And in fact this is very close to the desired development zone and it really bothers me, I've had to think quite a bit about this, whether I would support this or not. And when I put it on the agenda, Councilmember Spelman and I, we told the proposers that that doesn't mean we supported it. We wanted to hear the discussion of the Council. I doubt we are going to get too much today considering the amount of crushing weight of the items on the agenda. So what I would propose is that we pass the -- the ordinance on first reading, as in the backup. I would like to have someone from the staff, if I can get a second, I want to ask somebody from the staff some questions which might amend the ordinance slightly. Garza Garza les is available for that.

>>Spelman: second, I may have a friendly amendment to supplement brother Slusher's addition later on.

>>Mayor Watson: motion made by Councilmember Slusher, seconded by Councilmember Spelman to pass the ordinance on first reading only. Councilmember Slusher I will recognize you for questions to Mr. Tull.

>>Slusher: Mr. Tull, there's been communication to my office that said the staff was a little concerned about how to go forward and do this as a pilot project. As recommended by the environmental board, and the Planning Commission. And what -- if you tell me what those concerns are, if you think those could be worked out under the ordinance bypassing it during the first reading, adding some things to it, in the interim.

>> Discussions we've had among staff is that first of all there is no such thing defined anywhere in our land development code or anywhere in the code that I am aware of that calls out what a pilot project is. In this particular case where we would be essentially granting a project the right to continue with additional impervious cover, it seems to me that the benefits of doing that, of the rainfall harvesting system in terms of what impacts it has or what benefits it has relative to that variance that you are granting needs to be at the heart of the pilot project evaluation. Staff would like to have time, what I would suggest is that staff, the water quality staff, code review staff, water conservation staff, green builders staff work together as a team in the next several weeks to put together specific criteria which we feel would be part -- be considered the pilot project, would be the questions that need to be answered, would reflect the specific information that we feel would feed to be gathered during this bite project -- would need to be gathered. We can deal with the time perry. I know that under the -- there is potentially money available under the water conservation program. For the rainfall harvesting system. They have specific requirements for information gathering. I know Mr. Bowman has brought forward this as an educational effort. I am sure we would work with him then for some period of time, probably I would think several years to gather the data that would show the benefits of this.

>>Slusher: as far as when you would -- how long do you think this would take before you could get it back on the agenda. You weren't referring to several years there.

>> No. That was collecting the data. What staff was requesting was four weeks, given the current workload of several of the staff who are doing with -- dealing with this issue and others in order to be able to put together an adequate package for you for consideration with final approval of the ordinance.

>>Slusher: okay. I will yield to Councilmember Griffith.

>>Griffith: hi, thanks for helping us with this. It was reported that the staff is not recommending this at this time; is that correct?

>> the staff did not recommend the original variance for additional impervious cover as a result of the use of a rainfall harvesting system. As far as I am aware, staff and the environmental section has never recommended a variance for increased impervious cover for projects. This particular project, given that it is in the dlenging water protection zone in a water supply watershed, looking at the finings of fact, which is what staff and environmental board an Planning Commission must operate under in granting variances, could not say yes that this was -- this could be allowable. That you could build a project on this site. We do not prevent this land from being used.

>>Griffith: but don't count it in terms of impervious cover; is that what you are saying?

>> yes. In staff's mind what we saw was this was a policy issue that needed to be brought to Council to say that, yes, this is the direction that we would like to explore, the current code does not provide staff that opportunity.

>>Griffith: the environmental board did what?

>> I am trying to remember exactly. Chris? did not recommend. I believe it -- the plan commission did not recommend it.

>>Griffith: there are a couple of questions for you that came out of your comments here in your evaluation. It says: a complete copy of the model output should be provided for review process. Has that shown up yet?

>> I understand a copy was provided to staff as the development review department. A copy has not been provided to me, however, for my review.

>> It says plans and specifications of the gutter pumps, down spout, irrigation and other components must be provided for review. Has that happened?

>> at this time we have gotten additional information from -- I believe you are speaking from my august 4th memo; is that correct, Council?

>> yes, sir.

>> Yes, additional information was provided. There is additional engineering information that I feel is needed to demonstrate calculations for the infiltration areas and specific components of the system, which I would require before approval of the site plan.

>> And your question here was how is the runoff captured and treated? have you gotten an answer to that?

>> excuse me.

>> 3 It says my understanding of rainfall harvesting systems is that an initial washoff volume is bypassed around the collection system. Is this the case for this system? if so, how is this runoff captured and treated? did we ever find that out?

>> yes, we did. They explained the use of the different boxes, essentially, that are initial capture and filtering systems and explained how that water does enter the system.

>>Griffith: an then runoff from driveways is not shown to be conveyed to any treatment system. What does that mean?

>> again, because the system -- the rainfall capturing system in this case captures that runoff that occurs from the roof top, there was impervious cover on driveways into the garages that the original submittal did not include any form of treatment, not addressed in the calculations, since that time, they have redesigned the system as Mr. Spelman mentioned to include narrowing the driveways to simply the track areas where the wheels would run. In addition they were I think operating what I called vegetative buffer strips, so that runoff from those would pass through vegetation for treatment.

>> It says the City has the responsibility to conduct annual inspection of the system. To confirm that it is being operated and maintained in working condition. This would include an examination of the all runoff capture conveyance pumping, storage and discharge elements. And then you essentially ask has the -- has the owner said we can come do this?

>> that's correct. Under the code, the systems that are provided for water quality treatment, which in this case, this system is doing what would normally be done on a side by sand filter system. It requires the City, in particular requires the watershed protection department to inspect those on an annual or biannual basis to make sure they are operating and being maintained properly. Again this is a code requirement. Imposed on us. And in this case, what we are doing is saying here's an alternative system that could be used that would do this, how do we deal with the situation where we would be in effect needing to go into people's -- into single family homes and do these inspections. It pauts certain burden on staff and -- puts a certain burden on staff in a situation that hasn't been done with before.

>>Griffith: that was my concern.

>> My recommendation, I think this would be one of the items that would come about during this four week period developing criteria, we would essentially do a self reporting. We would require that the owner of those units, the homeowners association, which would have ultimate responsibility, provide a regular record regarding maintenance and operation of it, essentially in perpuituity to the City. Rather than us going into people's homes. I don't think we want to go there.

>> Right, so to speak. It says: a failure of the system occurs, are the current or future owners willing to repair the system such that it continues to meet the water quality treatment requirements? how can one owner bind the next?

>> in this case, it is going to be operated by a homeowners association. Again, Mr. Bowman would probably be able to address this specifically in terms of its articles of incorporation and how it operates, but it as an entity would be the group that we would go to if it's discovered that they don't report, we do make an inspection, find that it isn't working, we can go to the homeowners association, take them to court, use whatever legal means we would against any other business or operation.

>>Griffith: if this variance is gransed, then are we change -- granted, then are we changing the code and policy in terms of you can trade for more impervious cover, is that what we are saying?

>> no, I don't believe -- the way I see this being aned and drafrted, I think this is -- drafted, this is probably a question for your attorneys, but this would be specifically Written for this particular project alone and would not in any way change the actual code for other projects.

>> It would not set a precedent and not change the code.

>> That's correct.

>>Griffith: thank you.

>>Mayor Watson: any other questions at this time. Motion made by Councilmember Slusher, seconded by Councilmember Spelman on first reading. I will recognize Councilmember Spelman?

>>Spelman: I think as amended by Councilmember Slusher a moment ago, I fully support exactly the way this is done. What we would do is to pass this ordinance on first reading, giving the staff a month and -- to work with the developer to figure out what it is they are going to collect, figure out how they are going to collect it, figure out how to analyze it being then they will report back to us a month from now, explaining all of that to us and giving us an opportunity to pass this on second or third reading or not. I think that's a perfectly reasonable way to go about this. Mr. Bowman you seem to disagree with us on that. Since you are disagreeing, I would like to give you an opportunity to explain why.

>>Mayor Watson: Mr. Bowman.

>>Spelman: why will a month be a problem for you, sir?

>> we have been going around on this almost nine months. The staff has had it in hand to review it and go through it, we have gone through the formula, we have created a formula. We are at the end of a very long economic rope. What the reason is is the time frame. The concern is that. We are in the process of losing some of our subcontractors because of the delays. We are in the process of looking at our financials changing because of the delays. To add another month to it means that we won't start construction until well into January, if not the end of January at the very earliest.

>>Spelman: have you had a cans to discuss data collection and analysis requirements with the staff? specifically?

>> we have attempted to and we were told they had no authority to do that because the code didn't allow for a pile project, they don't know who would do it, which staff. What I see could happen, the construction of the facilities aren't really going to change. The building themselves won't change. The issue of the pilot project is a parallel process. How to collect what kind of data, how much reporting, how often. The condominium association wants this up and running, we will do all of the maintenance and maintenance reports. I don't think that's the issue. I think the type of report that each of the agencies want to see is -- is the issue. And those issues can be worked out with them while we are getting ready to start our construction. If we got the approval to go ahead, they could take the four weeks parallel to our development phase. I don't see that the two have to be tagged back to back in order to do that. It's just a matter of who is going to measure what, how they are going to measure it, what kind of format they want that in. I don't see that changing greatly by doing those as parallel items.

>>Slusher: Mr. Bowman, I understand your frustration, but on the other hand you are asking for waivers from the city ordinances and our staff is -- has worked very hard. I know a number of items in particular has increased their workload lately. And to me if they say they need a month to feel comfortable about it, you are asking for waivers to do a pilot project, like one of the previous speakers said, I don't think it's that simple of an item that makes me uncomfortable to not grant the staff's wish. So I don't know if I could support -- I don't think that I could support this pushing it through right now against their -- their requests to have some more time to develop how they want to do the pilot project.

>> Originally we did come with a pilot project, not a variance request. There was no mechanism to do that, that's why it went into the variance -- the environmental review board could neither confirm nor deny the variance. They recommended the pilot project. Same thing with planning commission, they denied the variance not to set a press dents, but recommended going through a pilot project. Precedent. But I think part of the issue is that nobody understands what that means, how to handle that. I can appreciate that. I guess what I am asking is so we can make our development plans move forward is to do their planning process parallel to it, with the approval to go ahead and build. We are not going to have anything in place within a month as it stands. We still have to go back through and finalize the site plan get that approved. That's probably a two week process as it sits right now much once we get to that, we would enter into the development side. I don't know if I am answering --

>> well, I think you have some decent points there. Like I said, I understand some of your frustration. But I am not -- it's a lot for me to do to give impervious cover waiver in the drinking water protection zone anyway. And if our professionals for the City say that they need 30 more days to be comfortable with this, then I am not going to say I can't -- I can't go for that because of your time line. I am just not going to do that. If you prefer that I just withdraw the motion, that's -- that's what I will do. But I can't -- I am not going to say no to our professional staff if they say they need 30 more days to work on this. I will just tell that you very bluntly.

>> So you are saying that their pilot formula, if you will, will be accomplished within the 30 days and at that point what would happen? we would go --.

>>Slusher: it comes back for final approval. It's very routine on even items that aren't requesting variances from City laws to pass it on first reading, send it back for the final ordinance to be put together and then give it final approval when the staff is -- has completed drafting the final documents. Once we pass something on final, then that's the way it is. We have to be very comfortable with it as policy makers of the City entrusted by the voters to carry out the City laws. I am very uncomfortable making a decision against the staff's wishes based just on your time line. I'm not -- that's not to say that that's illegitimate or that you don't have solid reasons for wanting to push this along. But as a policy maker, I am telling you, I am just not going to grant an ordinance on all three readings when the staff tells me that they need 30 more days to look at it.

>> I understand.

>> Thank you. City Manager?

>> what I would pledge that is we would work with the two different staffs so by december 10th meeting, which is roughly 30 days from now, we would be ready to have dealt with those issues so we can move on with this and the Council can vote one way or another. We will work our organization so we have the questions answered to the extent that we can.

>>Griffith: Mayor?

>>Mayor Watson: Councilmember Griffith.

>>Griffith: one of the things that the Planning Commission talked about, it says the need for the variances was kathyed -- created as a result of the depositing of fill on the site and not by the subdivision of the property. What does that mean?

>> in 1968, when the subdivision was approved, someone took all of the quarry remnants from murchison quarry an dumped it on the site. Some of the fill is five feet by five feet granite boulders. It's very unusual fill. That's one of the reasons it's remained vacant the past 30 years. The changed the topography from an even 14% slope across the site to one that has a flat spot at the top, a very steep hill in the center, sort of in an s shape, then a lower spot. That as you look at the site plan that's there, the three buildings are the two to the bottom and the lower right are on the upper portion of the site, the third one to the left is on the lower portion.

>> Thank you, that's they have. It says: the applicant claims that the overall impacted impervious cover for the site is approximately 2.2%. With the proposed storm water management system. Although the proposed -- proposed proposal approaches a non-degradation water development strategy, the land development code does not allow for the mitigation of impervious cover through an engineered storm water management system. And that's where it's stopped and that's where staff said we can't look into this, that was the reference to that.

>> Yes. The code does not add it.

>>Griffith: so what concerns me is why are we not changing the code if we do this? how can we know that it's -- [applause] how can we know that it's a one time shot and not -- not precedent setting and not always?

>> the way the pilot project to me was told that it would work, was we would build this, look at how it functions so we know is it doing this much or that much and we have actual numbers. And from that we can make a judgment call, you can make a judgment call about the code and how it should or should not be incorporated into it. And how it affects. Part of the issue is that this technology was not even considered back when the code was Written, so it's -- it's just an outdated code, that is why why it hadn't addressed it.

>> If you don't get the variance, are you still going to do the project, the water harvesting part of it?

>> I don't know what we will do. I may sell the lot.

>>Griffith: okay.

>>Spelman: I think another answer to Councilmember Griffith's question. I think we set a precedent if we say we are setting a press dents and we don't if we say we are not setting a precedent. I can't say for anybody else, but I for one intend to do this exactly once. I will vote for this variance, not for any more variances until we have spent a sizeable amount of time, something like a year, maybe more, to collect the information we need to tow whether it works. And if it works, then we can consider further variances, we can consider making changes in the land development code then. If it doesn't work, we can still consider it, but I think none of us are going to support it. So I am going to do this once and only once and as far as I am concerned it's no precedent whatsoever.

>>Mayor Watson: motion made and seconded to pass on first reading, bring it back within 30 days with staff having an opportunity to look at that. Councilmember Griffith?

>>Griffith: one more quick question. If we really need the month and it's not going to pass without your giving the staff the month to get the needed information, how do you feel about that? how would you feel about that?

>> I am nervous. [Laughter]. I -- my partner concurs that it's the best solution that we have right now. And we are willing -- as long as we have a set date for that pilot mechanism to be done, so it doesn't get extended and so on and so on.

>>Griffith: so you will go with the month.

>>Mayor Watson: motion made around seconded. There being no further discussion, those in favor say aye. Motion carries, I indicated earlier that we were going to go back to item no. 13, But I believe item no. 26 Will be a more rapid item, so I am going to call up item no. 26 First and recognize Councilmember Garcia.

>>Lewis: before -- before Councilmember Garcia begins, let me say I am going to be leaving the chamber for approximately an hour and a half or so to attend another meeting on ih 130. I was -- I was challenged on the -- whether I had a conflict of interest on item no. 79. So -- so to ensure that I don't be involved in the discussion, I will be out of the chambers during that time.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you, Councilmember Garcia, item no. 26.

>>Garcia: I am going to propose this item go back to the telecommunications commission, we have a smerb called meeting on the 17th in case we don't have a regular meeting, this item be put back on the agenda on the 19th for action.

>>Spelman: second.

>>Mayor Watson: telecommunications commission?

>>Garcia: subcommittee of the Council. And the staff wants to know, I have three or fourishes I need to give to them.

>>Mayor Watson: motion made by Councilmember Garcia, seconded by Councilmember Lewis to send this item back to the telecommunications subcommittee of the Council with a special meeting on what date?

>>Garcia: the 17th, back on the Council agenda on the 19th.

>>Mayor Watson: all right. That motion has been made and seconded, is there any discussion? hearing none, all those in favor say aye., opposed say no., motion carries on item no. 26. For those of you all that are in the audience, the way we are going to operate next is I am going to go to item no. 13, And then just based upon -- we are going to go to item no. 13 Next, let's just go to item no. 13, I will recognize Councilmember Garcia.

>>Garcia: how many speakers do we have on this one?

>>Mayor Watson: nine. Although I think a couple of people have indicated they don't need to speak. They can just state their position.

>>Garcia: this item has been discussed extensively and at the appropriate time I will make a motion with basically two minor amendments. The first one is that the m.b.e./w.b.e. Activity be handled by our smbr instead of by the contractor that they mentioned first. And secondly that -- that the gilbane building company get a -- an advisory committee made up of four or five people from the hispanic contractors, black contractors, women contractors, asian contractors, the native american contractors to address the issue of how to package the construction of a -- of the Convention Center expansion. The people that have been doing the airport have been doing a very good job of that. That's a very good model that they have used to make sure that we have good mbe/w.b.e. Participation. So that -- at the appropriate time, you know, I would like to make the motion to -- to approve the resolution authorizing negotiation and execution of the contract with those two amendments.

>>Spelman: second.

>>Mayor Watson: I am going to go ahead and take that as a motion at this point made by Councilmember Garcia, seconded by Councilmember Spelman. The motion is to approve the resolution authorizing negotiation and execution with gilbane building company with two additions, that is that the m.b.e. W.b.e. Be handled by the City of Austin's smbr and that gilbane create an advisory committee of no less than 5 people made up from the various entities that have been indicated to address the issue of how to package the Convention Center expansion with emphasis being placed on looking to the airport construction as a modem for assuring mbe and w.b.e. Participation, that's the motion and second. At this time I will call on the people that have signed up to speak. You have heard the motion. If you don't need to speak, don't. [Laughter]. I was trying to think of a nice way to say that, but I couldn't come up with anything. Those of you that have signed up in favor of this, moment moment [one moment please] we will be visiting those cities to work for this effort. Finally, I just would like to say that I'm excited about this project, what the future has to offer as we increase the participation of the minority contractors in this construction industry and major projects. I would also like to recognize the invaluable assistance that the City and the state elected officials have offered to our association in supporting the efforts of the hispanic contractors association. Without your support, we would be unable to make the many achievements that we have been able to do. And Mayor, I know that you don't want us to speak a whole lot on this item, but I would like to introduce bobby enriquez so she can make a few points and I promise you she won't be long either.

>>Mayor Watson: we'll see. She signed a card and when I come to her card, we'll call her up. Thank you very much. We appreciate your input. Wendell holmes? you need to speak, huh? okay.

>> Yes, I'm the regional manager for gilbane building company for the Texas operations and I just wanted to say just something very brief. We were involved in the original Convention Center and I feel that we did a good job in the area of minority participation. The City has done a lot of things to improve the model that we had. I understand that the airport has done very well in this area also and I just wanted to say that we are committed again to doing as much as we can in this area and we will work with the association to do as much as we can to make it a very -- very successful project this time. So thank you very much and I hope I was brief enough.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you very much. Steve nelson?

>> Mayor, I don't need to speak.

>>Mayor Watson: well said. [Laughter]. He signed up in favor. Freddy bass stee I don't.

>> Mayor, I do not need to speak.

>>Mayor Watson: he signed up in favor. Richard signed up in favor. Ms. Enriquez, you can come up forward, unless you've changed your mind. Nash Martinez signed up and said he didn't wish to speak and signed up in favor.

>> Thank you. The Austin and hispanic contractors association has worked very diligently over the last three years as you well know to better prepare its members for participation in major construction projects. It's worked with City and state officials in the development of policies and in the opening of opportunities for minority contractors. Because of the association's advocacy, we've seen City of Austin construction contracts to hispanic contractors increase from 8.1 million in 97 to 34.8 million in 1998. But the work has only begun. When you look at the total dollars spent on construction projects, this number still falls short of the counsel's goals. There is still much improvement needed to ensure there is equity in the process. The Austin Convention Center project has been a very difficult one. As we've watched it, we've seen many red flags go up as I presented to you in last week's meeting. The easy things thing to do for the Council would be for award the contract to the alternate recommendation. That would only be a dand aid solution and perhaps the hispanic contractors association would have to return at a later date to address the same issues again. Through discussion with the city of Austin and the recommended contractors gilbane and faulkner, we've been able to address some of the issues and the hispanic contractors association believes that in the long-term a better solution is at hand. The hca is pleased that we have a commitment from the city of Austin to facilitate the packaging of the contracts to that minority contractors can participate on this project and a commitment from the contractors gilbane and faulkner to work hand in hand with the advisory panel in the packaging of the different contractors for facilitying the fa siltation of minority contractors. The advisory panel we understand will have representation from the private and public secters. Hispanic contractors association will move forward in the spirit of cooperation and sees this as an effort to develop a successful model that can be replicated citywide and perhaps statewide at some point. As you well known, Austin has been on the cutting edge of many, many issues and I believe that this could be very well the beginning of something that could prove to be very fruitful for minority contracting across the state. Thank you very much.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you. The motion has been made by Councilmember Garcia, seconded by Councilmember Spelman to approve the resolution authorizing the negotiation and execution of the contract with the two additions as stated. Is there any discussion? hearing none, all those in favor say aye.. Opposed say no. The motion carries with Councilmember Lewis off the dias on item no. 13.

>>Garcia: Mayor? I just want to say thank you to the leadership of the minority and women minority organizations. They've done a great job and I want to thank gilbane for their cooperative efforts. I think this is something that can benefit everybody and I look forward to working with you.

>>Goodman: and faulkner.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you very much. What I'm going to do is I'm going to call up item no. 79 As a public hearing on the proposed relocation of the up to me chemical dependency center to 2910 webberville road and I will first call on Councilmember Slusher.

>>Slusher: yes, Mayor. First of all, I want to point out that we're not going to act on this item today. There is a posting error in the action item and so I don't want to move forward on that. We'll bring it back in two weeks for action. But we will continue with the hearing. And before we get started on that, I would like for the city attorney to address exactly what the City's authority is in this matter and what any action item, what the choices would be:.

>> Yes, sir. The chapter of the government code specifically provides that in those situations where the City has requested that notice be provided of any such institution that that notice is required to be given and then the City has 60 days from the date of that notice in which to take action on the request for -- on proposed location of that -- of the facility. The City has the authority under that specific provision to -- to either grant permission for the facility to go in or to deny permission for the facility in. This is the one time when the state has given a municipality the ability and the authority to make a decision that is superior to the sovereignty of the state.

>>Mayor Watson: with that we'll go to the public hearing. We have a number of people signed up. And we know how important this is and we're not going to slight anybody in terms of time. Just so that you will know, we have several other public hearings here tonight and we have a number of items that we also need to take up. And that's fine. I ask you in deference to people that are following you, other citizens that also have important public hearings that they wish to comment on that be courteous of your neighbors because if you are just repeating something that someone else has said, there's not a need for that. And what you may be doing, you may feel like it's only your -- just three minutes, but when those three minutes start adding up, whatever the second or third or fourth public hearing that we have tonight, those people may not have the opportunity to be truly heard in the same way, so please be deaf ren shall to your neighbors who may be following you on important items to them tonight: reverend Dr. Sterling lands. Reverend lands? reverend lands signed up in favor. Gertrude green, do you wish to speak? please come forward. Here is what is I will also do is we will call out three names at a time. If you are the person that is following whoever is speaking, please make your way to the empty podium so that if you are compelled to speak, you can start immediately afterwards and that way we can have a little bit more efficiency and then the third name I will call out will be someone that you know you're on deck and you can start making your way toward a podium. Ms. Williams is signed up in favor, but not speaking. Jorge guerra? Mr. Guerra signed up against. Rosie gonzales? ms. Gonzales signed up against. Johnnie limon? do you wish to speak? if you would make your way to this podium. Ms. Humphrey? do you wish to speak? please come forward. Ms. Green, welcome, ma'am.

>> Good evening, Mayor and Councilmembers. I am ms. Green, I'm a member of the jj brooks neighborhood association. Austin is my home and I've seen many changes in east Austin. May I remind all of you a person lives where they can afford to live and if I had my choice, I would have a cabin in the moun ton for the weekends and a townhouse in the City during the week, but I must be realistic and just keep up with my modest home in deepest East Austin. I oppose the up to me project location at the old la la convalescent home because the site was too dangerous russly located for a nursing home in the first place. The typical patients of a nursing home and it was too close to a busy intersection. The proposed site project at this site is not suitable because in the first place homeowners were not notified of the project's locating there and had to be told by other people in another part of the City what was coming to their neighborhood. This site is not suitable for the neighborhood because it's too close to senior citizens who use the roads to go to clinics. The senior citizens, too close to elementary schools and small children. There's a project full of senior citizens and small children. It's too close to the almost built east view acc campus and the nursing home down the street has confused patients there also. East Austin is nothing but a dumping ground for anything that is undesirable in other parts of Austin. I watched the triangle development already suitable for a busy intersection replanned because the neighbors did not like added traffic to their area. We do not like afk traffic in our area either, but we can live with that. It's the unsupervised fell lons that I'm concerned about in our neighborhood near older citizens and small children. In East Austin we have a stop-n-go here, a chicken place there, a pawn shop here, a public warehouse there, a drug treatment center here, a liquor store there, a gas station here, a car repair shop there and a water treatment plant here. We do not need a project of this type on the corner of a busy pleasant valley and webberville roads in east Austin. It's too dangerous for our citizens. We need more greenbelts for our senior citizens and small children to enjoy. Safe streets, housing, lighting for housing and not to have to worry about our safety in East Austin with dangerous felons roaming the street unsupervised. I know every felon needs rehabilitation, but most of the homes in this area be paid for and people want to enjoy their homes and not to have to always worry and have to look over their shoulders. We deserve better. Thank you. [Applause].

>>Goodman: thank you. John limon is next, but also Mr. Guerra has come in, so if he could come up to the microphone after Mr. Limon speaks.

>> Today I'm here really representing my family and friends that live around the area. Hopefully being now that we know what's happening there that I will be able to get my neighborhood, which is the gorgeous neighborhood and also the saint julia church congregation involved in this matter. What we're here today for is we're not here to say that this -- that the up to me property is -- that they're not a good project. All we're saying is that we don't really need this in our community. Especially in that particular area, the community has worked real hard to -- really to change the negative stereo typing that East Austin has. We are working real hard to make it a very positive thing. And just within a block of this -- of this proposed site for the up to me we have, it's been mentioned, the senior activities center, which is right across the street. We have the clinics, which is right across the street. We have also the new football stadium, the yellow jacket football stadium which attracts many, many kids there, a positive thing, because we're trying to make sure and the people working there are trying to make sure that the kids do go straight, trying to reach them before they get to this point. And also we have the recreation center which is only about a block and a half away from there towards the -- south from there. And we also -- something that the community really worked hard for. And that was the acc. The acc east campus is going to be opening up in January. This campus we're hoping is is going to bring students from all over Austin. We want to have something positive. We want those students that come into East Austin to take something positive back with them to where they live so they can see that East Austin is a beautiful place, that East Austin doesn't have -- does have a lot of great people, but with something that's being sponsored by the criminal justice center is not going to give us that positive that we're -- that we've been fight fog a long time for in East Austin. Again, I don't want to repeat some of the things that the lady already said, but again, you know when you look at it, drug and alcohol rehab, it sounds okay, but when you really get down to it and find out what it's really composed of, these are people that have gone to prison that are being released from prisons. But I know that it's confidential, that we don't know what crimes they committed, but chances are the crimes were not for drugs or alcohol. It was other crimes that they committed. That's what has the neighbors worried. All of us worried. And so that is -- that is what we want the people to know is that drugs and alcohol. [Buzzer]. Sounds good, but there is also something else behind it. Thank you very much.

>>Goodman: thank you. [Applause]. Let me call the names after Mr. Guerra also so that we can come up to the poed yums and be ready. I'll mention that there are -- there are 80 speakers. So if we're ready to go quickly as soon as each of us finishes, we might get through at a reasonable hour. After Mr. Guerra is antoinette humphrey. Is she here? then come on up to the other -- to the other podium. Thank you very much. And flo -- I'm not sure about -- it's a hyphenated name. Flo Williams- -- winsalmon. Is she here?

>>Garcia: flo win salmon.

>>Goodman: okay. She's in favor. Dr. Thomas? in favor. Danny l. Thomas; senior? he didn't mark one way or the other. Reverend hawkins? in favor. Claudia davis? in favor. Diane k. Rigly in favor. Danny thomas, Jr.?

>> we're here. We're here.

>>Goodman: okay. Then you can be after ms. Humphrey.

>> Thank you Mayor pro tem, ms. Goodman, thank you to the members of the Council present here. I want to make a notice that the City Manager, the Mayor, Mr. Spelman and Mr. Lewis are not present to listen to us, but I hope they're watching. Mr. Watson, let me tell you before you got elected you went to see me and I told you -- you wanted to know what to do about the City of Austin, how to make it better. I said work on the problems that we have, that we have had for a long time. Don't get into new problems. We have too many. Work on them and I will support you. And I voted for all of you, I said that before, here at the same place, and I will say that again. Even if the the people are present or not, I still support them, but I hope that they have a change of mind and not be hip credits and do the right thing and do not credit new problems for the City of Austin and Travis County. We are short 500 preliminary and you are not bringing a -- policemen and you are not bringing a better environment to our community. You said community policing and you send us something that you cannot koen with without having any compensation for it, any kind of protection. We have no protection. We've got to protect ourselves. And yet you want to protect these people by giving them a safe place at night to sleep, get up in the morning, get breakfast or whatever and go on and come back at night and we take you again. Huh? I tell you what, I just found out about this last night. I've been paying taxes in that area for six properties. Two of them are less than three blocks away. The other four are less than a quarter of a mile away from it. You take about $5,000 in real estate taxes from people that sweat to make a living. Listen to me. We have been trying for the last 40 years to improve and what do the City of Austin do, the Mayor freed man increases the drinking hours to two a.m. In the morning. And you want to rehab people. What you want to do is bring in a rehabilitation center and go back to the old hours of drinking. Round rock is going to get the business. So what is it that we want to have? make up your minds. Now you make money, you know you do --. [Laughter]. You know you do. Why do you make it easy, because you have a bunch of slaves working for you that don't have the guts to come and challenge you. [Buzzer]. In three minutes I cannot say enough. Listen, I love this City and that's why I'm here. And I don't really know what you want to do there. Now, let me tell you, you promised to me a high security rehabilitation center with two fences and electronic one inside and a second one outside with guards on the four corners. And go and check my neighborhood too, not just the rehabilitation center. Then maybe I listen to you. Listen, you people, too bad, you, Mayor Watson, watch it. You better watch it. You're going to have a honduras situation here in Austin. Why?

>>Goodman: thank you, Mr. Guerra. Your time is up and we hear you. [Applause].

>>Spelman: from time to time during this public hearing and other public hearings you may see some of us walk off the dias for one reason or the other. Although I was no on the dias for his very forceful presentation, I did hear it and I came back on to let him know I was paying attention. We're all paying attention, even though we may not be physically here at the time that you're talking.

>>Goodman: what happens is when we're trying to grab a bite to eat, we don't want to stop the Council meeting entirely so we're taking turns going off the dias to do that, but there's a monitor and we hear everything. Ms. Humphrey, thank you.

>> Good evening. I greatly appreciate the opportunity to speak before you this evening. I am in opposition of the facility being moved to my neighborhood, but it's for reasons that I'm sure everyone will express, but they may not express it the same way because I may not sound angry, but -- and I'm not angry. I'm just a concerned citizen. I'm concerned because I'm a wife and I'm also a mother of a small child. I live within a block of where this facility may be located if you approve it. My concern is that, one, the persons that are felons will have an opportunity to 21 days to look for employment, they will not be supervised during that time. There's a project to the school and there are a lot of latch key children that attend that school. They're on their own or they're being raised by older brothers and sisters and it concerns me that they may be influenced negatively by someone who may be in the area not intending to look for employment. That's one of the issues that I have. Another one is the elderly in my community that don't have an option about where they live. They're there because economically that's where they can be. And like many of you, when you're not satisfied with elements in your community, you get up and move, just like I have the opportunity, but a lot of elderly people don't have that opportunity. A lot of them are on social security, medicaid, ungd kbd. And I think all of us have a right to feel comfortable and safe in our communities. The elderly in our communities, they don't feel safe with this project coming and they have differences here. Although I may not agree with all their fears and we may not, we know how it is to be afraid. Give these people an opportunity to continue to live free from fear. Also, I understand that people in -- on lamar, they were in favor of this project. Give us an opportunity to work with the up to me program and find a location that will be suitable for the people who live in the area where it will be located. I think it's commendable that the school children in the area where the facility is now, the teachers and the parents are in favor of that program. Give us an opportunity to look for alternative areas where everyone can be happy. Thank you very much.

>>Goodman: thank you, ma'am. [Applause]. Are you Mr. Thomas?

>> Mr. Thomas? who do you have?

>>Goodman: I have danny thomas, but I do have another thomas that I thought that I called earlier.

>> He's here. Danny l. Thomas and nathaniel. And sierra acos sierra acosta is here, she would be the next one to speak, or joe acosta. Angie diaz? did a lot of people go thinking it would be awhile and they'll maybe be back? there you are. Okay. If you will go ahead to the other podium, then you will be able to start. Mr. Thomas?

>>.

>> To the Mayor and Council I say good evening. My name is danny thomas and I'm here to support this particular center. I've listened to a lot of things over the period of time. I've heard they were scared about felons, I've heard about the people that are going to be in the facility, but let me explain something. I think what people have to understand and be educated to what this center is all about. God gave us another opportunity when he gave his son, Jesus christ, his only be gotten son. I think that we sit here and not give people a chance when these people are asking for a second chance in life. We're talking about people that are -- yes, they're ex-felons but they want a second chance. How many of us in here have got the opportunity for a second chance in life? they're not sex offenders, they are ex-offenders that have been in prison. They've been incourse rated. I've been a police officer for the Austin police department for 20 years and I have never had to arrest someone that has been treated through a therapeutic treatment center. The ones that I have to deal with are the ones that are out on the street that don't have a center to go to. There are several people that I have came to me while I'm on patrol and asked for help. I have taken people to detox, which is brackenridge, but not refer them to a center that is irrelevant reputable. I think that the community needs to get together and also there are several other problems. The problem, there are liquor stores down the street selling beer all the time that I've never seen this community come up and confront that. These people that are coming in your area are not the people that you need to be concerned about. You need to be concerned about just like the sister said, she's a single parent, you've got drug activities and the man that was talking about need more police officers. No, you need more of the community activity on a positive level and giving them a second chance. I hope that y'all will listen to the people that are coming that are supporting this. I do give my heart to the people that are concerned, but if they give this center a chance to come in and be positive, and and it will be a positive action in your community. Thank you. [Applause].

>>Mayor Watson: thank you, sir. Folks, folks, folks, just let me reiterate -- let met talk about a couple of things. One is again I ask you please be differential to the people that will be following you. And if you're just going to be repeating something somebody else has said, please don't feel the necessity of doing that. The other thing I would say is when you applaud, we're not going to stop you from applauding, but when you applaud, that just adds time. We also are approaching a fire problem and all of you that are standing, I would ask that you please find a place to sit and not stand against the walls are in front of the exits -- or in front of the exits. Are you Mr. Acosta?

>> yes, sir.

>>.

>>Mayor Watson: joe acos st. A.

>> Yes. My wife won't be speaking.

>>Mayor Watson: Mrs. Acosta signed up against. Angie diaz.

>> Right here.

>>Mayor Watson: shirley brown? ms. Brown signed up against. Glen wilson? I'm sorry? [inaudible]. Are you danny thomas?

>>? I'm sorry. I was told that you --. [Inaudible]. Okay. Dr. Thomas, I apologize, but apparently the cards were out of order when you called your name because apparently you were signed up as speaker no. 79 And we're only on speaker no. 9, So what I'm going to do is go in order that people signed up in. I apologize that your name was called. Glen wilson? Mr. Wilson signed up against. Viola wilson?

>> not speaking.

>>.

>>Mayor Watson: not speaking, but against. Lewis stewart? do you wish to speak are just be shown in opposition.

>> Opposition.

>>Mayor Watson: Mr. Stewart is in opposition. Dolores perez?

>> opposition.

>>Mayor Watson: she is shown against. Tory, punch ard, do you wish to speak? you will follow ms. Diaz. I'll bet she can move fast after Mr. Acosta. If you would please go ahead.

>> Thank you Mayor and Council. I live at 2811 lions road, which is right around the corner from the proposed site. I was raised on lions road. I've been out there -- living out there all my life, which has been a little while I guess you might say. My wife, who was raised directly another block behind me. Our son is now living at 2908 webberville road, which is directly across the street from this facility. He's married, has a three-year-old little boy. And there are some concerns on the neighborhood's part about this particular facility. As I say, my son lives directly across the street. My four-year-old grandson is there. I'm sure if you folks were presented with an opportunity to have something like this directly across the street from your grandson, your son, your daughters, I'm sure you would have some serious concerns about it too. That's why I'm up here. This is not something that I enjoy doing, but I am concerned, along with the rest of the neighbors, and I respectfully ask of you to deny the application for this coming in. The gentleman that owns this particular building has actually expressed to me real concerns about his financial situation on it, but I think if he were to work with the neighborhood, there could be other things that could go in the neighborhood that the people would feel more comfortable with and would probably embrace. There dwen, if he were to come to us -- again, if he were to come to us with something more positive, it would definitely be a help. My grandson asked me one day, we were out there in the front of his yard, he looked across the street and he says popo, he says, what is that that they are doing across the street? they're building the college, I told him. He said what's that for. I said son, that's for you to go to school after you get out of high school? he said do you know I can go there? and I said no, sir, I know you can go there. I don't want to tell him that you can go to the other facility over here. So I would appreciate your support for us, folks. Thank you very much and god bless everyone in this room.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you, sir. Angie diaz?

>> good evening Mayor Watson, Councilmembers and the City manager. Thank you for the opportunity to speak. My name is angie diaz and I've been a nurse at the community health center for 12 years. I'm here to speak as a patient advocate and on behalf of the doctors, nurses, pharmacists and clerical staff of rosewood zaragosa clinic in opposition to locating a rehab clinic from our clinic. Near a child care center, the senior citizen center directly behind our clinic, three blocks from oak springs he will men try, two blocks from the booker t. Washington housing project, next door to an acc that is under construction and directly across the street from a neighborhood that has had its problems with drug infestation. Many of our clients come to us in tears due to the drug problems with our children. This is a high risk area to locate a drug rehab. This is not what we call revitalization. It appears to be another dump on the citizens of East Austin who seem to have to frequently come before Council and object to such projects. We implore you to deny the proposal to locate the rehab on webberville road. We do not believe this is in the best interests of our clientele and surrounding neighborhoods. Many of us have our little stickies, lots do not want to stand up. Please stand up when those of you that are in opposition, because there are many of us behind you in the medical field. Thank you.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you. And I've forgotten,000 pronounce your name. Before we do that, let me get some people signed up and ready to go. Amelia flores? she does not want it in the neighborhood. Ms. Jackson.

>> Not speaking.

>>Mayor Watson: not speaking. She indicates she is the president of the mlk neighborhood association and is against putting facility in the neighborhood. Ruby -- I'm sorry. Ruby tubu?

>> trubu?

>>Mayor Watson: does not want it in the neighborhood. Ms. Trubu, do you need to speak? not here. Annie stewart? she says not in our neighborhood. May leonard? do you wish to speak?

>> yes, I do.

>>Mayor Watson: okay. Then if you will make your way to the podium. David worth? do you wish to speak or just be shown against?

>> against.

>>Mayor Watson: okay. He's indicated against up to me in our neighborhood. Mr. Riveria. Do you wish to speak are just be shown in opposition.

>> I will speak.

>>Mayor Watson: after Mr. Riveria, what we are going to do out of deference to other people who are here for other public hearings for items that are set to be heard tonight, the next item we will take up after Mr. Riveria is we will go to item no. 58 And we will start moving in that process. We will recess this public hearing, go to item no. 58 And deal with it for 45 minutes and then welcome back to this public hearing. Please go ahead.

>> Mayor, is it possible that I relinquish my time to someone else?

>>Mayor Watson: it sure is. That's part of what we're trying to avoid, but we can certainly do that. [Laughter]. You did such a good job, I would hate to see you mess up now. You had done such a good job of indicating your opposition and doing it so artfully and quickly that I would hate to see you mess up by giving it away. You're ms. Jackson? do you wish to relinquish? okay. Good. You're still on a roll. [Laughter]. All right, please, ma'am, go ahead.

>> First of all, Mr. Mayor and city Council, I would like to thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak. I'm speaking on behalf in memory of my father and also my mother who is ill at home at this time and she really regrets not being here this evening. This is just not another project. My mother is hazel obe and as you know, she is very active person in the community. This is her pet peef. She has retired from the state of Texas in december -- I'm sorry, in september. This is a project that she really wants to happen. I grew up helping others. My father was a baptist minister here in Austin, Texas, and I didn't really understand when I was growing up why we always brought people into our home, why there was always somebody that my mother -- my father was feeding. And I look now and I see that that was those people who we're trying to help now. I see nothing wrong with this. East Austin is our community. If we can't help them, who will? I've heard many things when people say say they go out on the job and they're not supervised. These people are highly supervised people. They're well trained and they are asked to bring back documentation which is followed up on. I really urge you, City Council, and Mayor to please supported yours. Support what we're trying to do in order to help somebody else. That is the reason of the transition team. Yes, they did wrong, but now they're trying to help themselves. Again, if we can't do it, who else will? thank you.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you.

>> I'm sorry, for those who are in support, would you please stand? thank you.

>> Good afternoon.

>>Mayor Watson: good evening.

>> I'm may leonard and I chair the people's forum and I'm also president of the grace wood neighborhood association. I'm greatly in agreement with the young lady that we must help our own. The concept is good, but the location is bad: I have nieces and nephews, I know what she's talking about, and they're in the penal system. They did wrong. I don't down them, I love them because they're mine. But I don't say put them in your neighborhood. There should be a place because when I come home to my house in the afternoon, I want to come with peace, the feeg feeling of peace and certify renty, and I am not as young as I used to be and I can't run at all and I don't want to feel like that I might have to run, you know. And then there are children, there are little children who need to look upon something positive, not a negative. And I love these young people because I have, like I say, nieces and nephews in the same category, but they did the crime, they spend the time. And there are just places that we must provide for them to learn rehabilitation. You don't learn rehabilitation by sitting down in the surroundings that you were in when you committed the crime. You've got to be somewhere where you desire to be back into a better atmosphere. In other words, separated from the good life so that you will 30's after the good life, which means that you will try to pattern yourself and fix yourself where when you go back into the good life, you will stay in the good life. You can't miss it if they never take you out of it. And like I say, I love my nephews and my nieces and I want them to do better and to come out. Some of them have children. It breaks my heart to look at the babies, but a lot of them go right back because of circumstances like this. You continue to live -- it's just like a lot of things. You can't teach a person to want something unless they're denied that. I know, I'm a cotton picker and I wanted a better life, so I thirirsted. I was a union representative and organization, anything that takes to make it to keep from going from where I came. I came up the hard way, working, you know. So this will what will encourage our young people to do better is by being denied, being denied the good life. How can you miss it if you're still in it? you can go home at night and when they say how much they're supervised, I said I have relatives in there --. [Buzzer]. I know.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you very much. The witness:.

>> Somebody give me some time.

>>Mayor Watson: what's your name. Do you remember. Say your last name again?

>> while he's looking for it, I want to say this.

>>Mayor Watson: you will have up to another three minutes.

>> I know. While he's looking for it, I want to say this. The relatives continue to visit your people wherever they are. You continue to keep them in your prayers wherever they are and wherever you are. You show family support because this is yours and you love it, and I do. And I think all of us should. But I'm just azure that everybody agrees that you -- azure that you cannot continue to feed a person that is that he is allergic to and skpp him to overcome it. You can't do that, you cannot. So therefore these children that are brought up in this area, there's the park -- I'm concerned about the -- the distance is a half mile from these places and I see a resident directly across the street, I see sair rose is a less than half a mile. I see the acc campus that I fought for so hard. I fought hard for acc. And when they closed that campus down and gave it back to us, this is not a good incentive to come to learn. This is not a good incentive for the children in the elementary to aspire to do better. And I see these little bitty kids on the street passing marijuana, you know, from one cigarette to the other. We need everything positive for these children to work forward and look forward to being and let acc be their goal and perhaps when they get over there, they'll go higher. Thank you.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you, ma'am. Mr. Riveria will be the next speaker and at that point we will recess the public hearing on item no. 79. I misspoke a minute ago. I think I said 58. What I meant is we will go to 68 and we will go then to 69, 70, 71 and 72. If staff related to the public hearings on cdbg is listening, please make your way to the Council chambers. Staff related to the public hearings on the three -- on the two annexations and on the strategy partnership related to anderson mill. If you're listening please make your way for the Council chambers so we can move through those rapidly.

>> Thank you. I live in glen oaks street. I am a member of the rosewood glen oaks neighborhood association, which is spearheading this effort here tonight to attempt to stop up to me from moving into 2915 webberville road. I have lived in this particular neighborhood for 15 years. Prior to that I lived in the govalle neighborhood, which is where the acc campus is being built. A couple of additional things that have not been mentioned that are very positive things that we've all worked toward, where the old anderson high school is used to be the acc campus also, a boys and girls club has recently moved in providing a lot of benefits, a lot of positive activities for the youth in our area, so there are -- we have struggled a long time to bring in positive things into your neighborhood. We have been bringing in a lot of habitat for humanity houses, a lot of new neighbors that we're getting. As a matter of fact, in my street it's a cul-de-sac, we are working -- we work closely with Councilmember Slusher to try to bring in at least another four houses and that -- in that block to continue to improve our neighborhood. I, like many of us, everybody else here or the people that are in support of our position, are against a facility like this because there are many things that co-happen and have happened in these facilities in the past. One is that we also looked at the internet and found that in many of these facilities most of the people are two time, maybe three time offenders that they just keep coming back and back. It's like an open door. They keep coming back. And to me the most important thing you see here is the neighborhood itself. The people that live there are -- are for the most part in opposition to this facility moving into our area. Before I leave I'd like to ask one question. How many people that live in the rosewood glen oaks neighborhood association are here, if they don't mind standing up that support this facility. That support the facility there are two people, three people in this neighborhood that obviously the neighborhood in general is opposed to this facility and I would ask the Council to please support the neighborhood's position. Thank you.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you. What we will do now is we will recess the hearing on item no. 79. We will go to the item owe some of the additional items that have been set for a time certain. Item no. 68 Is a public hearing on a a request to waive the minimum separation distance requirement of City code section 7-3 hp 4 between a one day outdoor street fest vl which intends to sell alcoholic beverages on guadalupe street, 400 block of west 22nd street -- and folks, it if you can hold it down. And 400 block of west 23rd street and area chunchs and public schools. File sp-98-0371 aw. Is there a staff presentation on this?

>> staff recommends the request to waive the distance requirement. This is an annual ee event. It's a one time event and it's supported by everyone.

>>Mayor Watson: folks, if I could ask you not to be talking in the Council chambers. If you wish have have conversations, please exit the chambers so we can continue our business and things that be heard. We have one person signed up to speak at the hearing on item no. 68. The staff has recommended that this be granted. I will ask kathy norman if she wishes to speak or wishes just to be available to answer any questions. Ms. Norman, are you here? she has signed up in favor representing the university partners. Motion has been made to close the public hearing by Councilmember Slusher seconded by Councilmember Spelman. Hearing none, all those in favor say aye. Opposed say no. The motion carries with the Mayor pro tem, Councilmember Garcia and Councilmember Lewis off the dias. The public hearing is closed. We will go to item no. 73. I'll entertain a motion with item no. 53.

>>Slusher: Mayor, I have a --.

>>Mayor Watson: hang on.

>>Slusher: good anticipation there.

>>.

>>Mayor Watson: have you done your business? motion is made by Councilmember Spelman, seconded by Councilmember Slusher to approve item no. 73. Is there any discussion? hearing none, all those in favor say aye. Opposed say no. The motion carries with the Mayor pro tem and Councilmember Lewis off the dias. That will take us to item no. 69. Public hearing on proposed amendments to the 1998-99, community development program and the consolidate plan to reprogram 445,000 dollars in cdbg funds. I'll recognize Mr. Hilgers.

>> Thank you, Mayor. I'm Paul hilgers. I think there might be a couple of people who have signed up.

>>Mayor Watson: there are.

>> This is the second of two public hearings. This action will be brought before the Council. This item will be brought before the Council for action on december the third. It has been reviewed by the community development commission who gave their approval to the recommendations on a 10 to one vote.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you very much. Michelle perez has signed up in favor, as has margot wise. Let me ask if they wish to speak. Please come forward. Is margo wise here, weisz?

>> I don't think she's here.

>>Mayor Watson: she signed up for representing the Austin community development corporation. Welcome.

>>Slusher: Mayor, I'm going to be off the dias for a supper break, but I'll be listening.

>>Mayor Watson: all right.

>> Thank you for having me. I'm with the Texas center for women's business enterprise. We have one one of our small business resource service providers with the City of Austin. I'm here to speak tonight because I understand the creation of a small business resource center is a part of this budget that you're reviewing right now. Excuse me. My daughter is here with me. It's after school hours.

>>Mayor Watson: that's all right.

>> I just want todd point out the value for service providers such as ourselves. Margo and others with the cdbc and the cooperation of a business center to be able to pool our resources to be able to make the most out of the city of Austin's investment in our programs, to be able to partner and be able to support one another. That's about that.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you very much. There's nobody else that has signed up to speak with regard to item no. 69.

>>Garcia: move to close the public hearing.

>>Mayor Watson: motion has been made and seconded by Councilmember Spelman to close the public hearing. Is there any discussion? hearing none, all those in favor say aye. Opposed say no. The motion carries with the Mayor pro tem, Councilmember Slusher and Councilmember Lewis off the dias.

>>Garcia: I think that there will be another public hearing at a later time at which time we take action; is that correct?

>>Mayor Watson: that's what he was explaining. Why don't you explain the schedule again.

>> There will be time for the Council to have questions answered before we take action. There won't be an actual public hearing, though.

>>Mayor Watson: that will take us to our 7:00 o'clock time certain, a public hearing for full purpose annexation of the following areas, pond strings multi-family area, fm six two right-of-way, park chase c ache en tract, lone star began away tract, brodie springs area, wild basin City of Austin loop 360 right-of-way, pond strings commercial area and howard lane industrial tract. I'm recognize Luther palmer.

>> Mayor, Councilmembers, these are nine areas proposed for full purpose annexation. This is the first public hearing that is required. There is a second public hearing that is scheduled for december the 19th, the same time in the Council chambers. That is also required. And no action can be taken on these items until december the 10th. They are scheduled for Council consideration to adopt the ordinance to december the 10th. In the case of each of these on annexation areas, the City can provide full compliment of service areas and they are for inspection by anyone that's interested. I can go over them individually for you or leave them at a whole at your pleasure.

>>Mayor Watson: why don't you right now discuss them as a whole and if the Council has specific questions, we can do that.

>> All right. --.

>>Mayor Watson: let me ask, for purposes of the public hearing, do you feel comfortable that a general description satisfies the needs of laying out the service plan at a public hearing?

>> yes.

>>Mayor Watson: okay. Thank you.

>> The overall services that are required by law can be provided in the case of each one of these annexation areas and the standard services are there. We do have the service plan available and it has been available ever since the advertisement appeared in the newspaper.

>>Mayor Watson: if you will give a general description then.

>> Basically the City is in a position to provide all of the police, emergency and fire services immediately upon annexation. The City will assume the responsibility for maintenance and operation of all of the public facilities in the areas and construct any capital improvements that are necessary to provide those services within the time frame established by law. That is to begin construction within two and a half years and complete construction after four years after it's annexed.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you. Does the Council have any questions of Mr. Palmer? Councilmember Garcia?

>>Garcia: we don't have to have a public hearing in the area?

>> on these there is no public hearing scheduled for these, not in the area. There is one that is scheduled as a result of a consent item that you had in the harris branch area, public hearing is scheduled for the 17th in that area because there is a significant number of residence ns that area and the regular -- the second public hearing for that area will be again also on the 19th, along with.

>>Garcia: that's all I had.

>>Mayor Watson: any other questions? there is no one that is signed up to speak on this item at this public hearing, but let me ask to make sure. Is there anyone that wishes to be heard on item no. 70, Which is the public hearing for the full purpose annexation of the areas that have been described? is there anyone that wishes to be heard on this -- at this public hearing with regard to these annexations, anyone? I'll entertain a motion to close the public hearing. Motion is made by Councilmember Spelman, seconded by Councilmember Garcia to close the public hearing on item no. 70. Is there any discussion? hearing none, all those in favor say aye. Any opposed. Council, what I would do is go to item no. 45 Because of the inadvertent non-pulling, I suppose -- I don't know how anything was inadvertently not pulled on this agenda, but item no. 45 And ask Mr. Nigh as if he will come forward -- nias come forward and briefly give us a description and so we can continue with item no. 45 And move on.

>> Mayor and Council, we were here on this case in early october and the distinct message I got from the City Council on this zoning case where the question is should we have rural residential zoning for a modest 11 homes on 11 and a half acres or should we have a two and a half acre conditional overlay was you should go away and if you can do this, we'll favorably consider the one acre lots. We were told from the dias that we were supposed to go away and figure out a way to solve a drainage problem that is emanating from off site. Right behind this property is a big c of sf two zoning and we were asked to see if we could -- even though it's not coming from our property, if we could solve a drainage problem by detaining on our property about 50% of the drainage that was coming from somebody else's property. We worked on that for a month, we tried to figure out a way to make that happen without losing lots. We couldn't figure that out, so now we're prepared to say, yes, we will detain 50% of somebody else's water, but we'll have to give up these two lots on the end to do that. And we're prepared to do that. We're also prepared, if you would like to have those lots for a regional -- mini regional pond or whatever to add to our preserve stock, we're prepared to give those lots to you, but in any event, whether we keep them and do that detention or you take them, what we're now looking at is nine single family homes on 11 and a half acres, nine single family homes on 11 and a half acres in strict compliance with current environmental ordinances. And I think that compares very favorably with the -- what's across the street where the opposition is coming from. The only nuftion I've ever heard for a two and a half -- justification I've ever heard for a tw two and a half acre overlay is there are five acre lots across the street. They're so-called five acre lots. As you can see, this map illustrates where the critical water quality zone of bull creek is. The dark blue is unbuildable, thrive% slopes and greater and the five acre lots so-called across the street are really about an acre and a half of buildable. I think we're comp rbl with that. This is currently seven home sites across the street before the large tract is subdivided. It will be at least seven, maybe nine or 10. We are in strict compliance with current or environmental ordinances and this lot across the street, this subdivision across the street was done as five acre lots to take advantage of an exemption from your ordinances. That was the so-called five acre exemption. And I say take advantage because it was never envisioned that people would come down and plat five acres substantially in the creek bed and take advantage of that exemption, but that's what they did and the City had to change its ordinance oz that regard because of this very subdivision. And so in summary what we're talking about here is a very modest request for nine homes on 11 and a half acres in strict compliance with current ordinances and going above and beyond the call of duty in solving a drainage problem that's not evening of our making and giving up our land to do that. And frankly, if you impose the two and a half acre overlay, I mean, in terms of buildable areas, you're requiring us to make wlots buildable areas that are actually larger than the lots across the street that are being put up as the comparison in probably 10 times of all the size of the buildable area in the sf two area behind us and quite frankly, I'll be blunt about this, that would be about the most unfair thing I would have seen an Austin City Council do. So I would ask you to please consider -- I'm asking for rural residential zoning. And this, I would remind you one more time, is an area that was annexed at the end of last year. We tried to withdraw this case, weren't allowed to do it because Council said as a goodwill gesture to the newly annexed areas, we're going to waive zoning fees and the way you did that, the mechanism for that was to make the staff the applicant and that was the sole reason for doing that and yet I was not allowed to withdraw this case. 11 And a half acres, nine homes, solving somebody else's drainage problem in strict compliance. So that's our side of the story. Thank you very much.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you Mr. Nias. Ms. Glasgow, could you come up? a couple of questions. One is if we wanted to achieve the result that Mr. Nias has outlined, what would we need to do with regard to this ordinance?

>> if you were to accommodate Mr. Nias' proposal you would make a recommendation based on what he stated. You would allow them to build, to have nine lots, and two of the lots. They have a total of 11 lots currently. So you would allow nine of those to be used for residential development and two of the lots they offered for detention purposes. So they would retain the water on site, if I understand correctly, as opposed to, and he may want to clarify this, that the detention ponds that were being offered to act as detention ponds would then be located on the two lots. So that would really be the essence of the motion.

>>Mayor Watson: yeah. And tell me why staff recommendation is opposite of that.

>> You have two recommendations. You have a recommendation from the Planning Commission, which was to reduce the number of lots from 11 to four, which means that each lot would have a minimum of two and a half acres. The staff recommendation was to grant rural residential zoning which allows one acre to each lot, hence giving you 11 lots. That's the difference.

>>Mayor Watson: all right. I'll entertain a motion with regard to numb no. 45.

>>Griffith: Mayor, I've been very concerned about the water aspects of this as well as just the entire valley. And I asked for a thorough briefing from staff and I got it. And the mechanism was being proposed for control of the runoff I had very little confidence in; however, I am still willing to go with the Planning Commission recommendation and would place that as a motion.

>>Mayor Watson: all right. Is that the same as what was passed on first reading?

>>Griffith: yes.

>>Mayor Watson: the motion is to approve -- and let me just say, Council, that we don't have enough -- if.

>>Garcia: I can go get one more.

>>Mayor Watson: it's up to you. We don't have enough here to pass it on second and third reading. If it's going to go that direction. I will tell you that my inclination is to vote no, so if the Mayor pro tem is listening, then -- and wants to vote against me, then she would need to be out here if it's going to pass.

>>Garcia: while we're waiting, can you tell us your rationale?

>>Mayor Watson: it strikes me as unfair.

>>Garcia: the planning commission recommendation?

>>Mayor Watson: under the set of circumstances.

>>Garcia: unfair to?

>>Mayor Watson: unfair to limit it in that way, particularly with what's being offered. I'd be happy to -- if it passes on second reading, I'd be happy to between second and third reading to spend more time seeing if we can figure out a way to approach that, but that's my current thinking.

>>Garcia: so you're looking more at the applicant recommendation?

>>Mayor Watson: uh-huh.

>>Garcia: go ahead, Councilmember.

>>Spelman: I don't know if this is reflected in the record or not, but it was my memory that we asked the staff to continue discussions with the applicant to determine whether there was a way of solving this drainage problem. I was wondering if there was somebody from the watershed protection department who might be able to discuss that.

>> The point man was pat murphy, who we met with extensively, but the problem is he's on vacation this week? spell is there anyone else who could address the issue?

>> we have two staff members here who could speak to you on what has transpired. We have joe gur rare ra, we have randall gaither from watershed protection who can speak to water quality related matters. So we are staffed to provide you with the answers you need.

>>Spelman: I would like to hear a presentation then.

>> He will come up and present what he has discussed.

>> Since the last time that I know that y'all had this on your agenda, I have met with the applicant applicant and at that time I spoke to the issues before. I was not familiar with the project. I'm now more familiar with the project. In terms of the problems associated with the drainage issue to which joe can speak in more detail from the flooding end. On the water quality end of the spectrum, which is more my area, all the proposals I've seen will meet our current code minimum requirements, if not exceed those in terms of density, in terms of treatment, in terms of all the things that are necessary for the protection of the water quality end of the thing. I think where we're running into potential problems or things that are a little bit more -- less than normal is in the flooding and potential for increase in flows on the exiting existing street that's downslope in front of the potential lots, lampasas trail. And I'll be glad to answer any of the water quality environmental related questions, if you have any specifics, if not I'll turn it over to joe and let him talk detention.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you.

>> Good evening, my name is jose guerrera. I'm in the operations and maintenance section and what we've reviewed in our area is a proposed maintenance agreement for individual underground tanks detention proposed by the applicant. The applicant also submitted a request for a waiver from detention which was recommended for denial by our engineering staff. We have since not received any other detailed engineering information. We're willing to work with the applicant, continue to work with the applicant. In fact, we scheduled a meeting for next tuesday to do so. But the individual maintenance of individual ponds proposed by the applicant did not meet with our initial approval, but we could probably -- I'm not going to say it's not going to work either way, but we could continue working with applicant on this particular issue.

>>Mayor Watson: all right. Mr. Nias?

>> the impression has been -- there's been an effort to create an impression that there's a significant drainage impact from our property. That's really not the case. It's pretty minor. The big impact is from above. This concrete box thing, the whole controversy there was that we proposed something innovative, something you're starting to see in the inner city infill projects where the small lots have to detain sform water. It's a concrete box recessed with pipes coming out of it. That was what we wanted to do because of less site disturbance. But if that's not acceptable for whatever reason, we can just do the normal surface pond like any other project. It's not -- it's not like this is some unsolve able drainage problem from our property.

>>Mayor Watson: all right. Councilmember Slusher Councilmember Slusher?

>>Slusher: Mayor, since he is not here tonight and he's familiar with it the most, I would be comfortable with the second reading and bring it back one more time.

>>Mayor Watson: like I was saying earlier, that I think is a better alternative because it allows for us to look at that. The motion has been -- the motion was made by Councilmember Griffith -- was to do it on second and third reading. Would you consider it a friendly amendment to go a second reading only?

>>Griffith: let's talk about that. The -- where is our -- where is our engineer? the underground tank system that was proposed, what's the history of those? do you have much confidence in those?

>> I have not personally been experienced with any history here in Austin with those underground tank systems. I know of their use in florida and elsewhere, but not here in Austin.

>>Griffith: that's my impression too, that they have no track record and they're highly experiment al.

>> I'm familiar with some underground detention systems where the storage is underground and the above ground space is used for parking cars or something.

>>Griffith: what the Council asked was that the applicant get with you during the time of the delay. Did that happen?

>> like I said, a couple of documents were submitted. We reviewed them. It was in the form of a maintenance agreement with the intention of looking at the underground systems, but the specifics, the engineering, the details on the underground tank systems were not brought forward.

>> But it was not anything new and different in terms of a way to do water, way to control the water. So what we were going to -- what we were hoping for is what is -- has all of a sudden shown up tonight, which is a new approach, but that didn't happen in the month -- in the intervening month, right?

>> no, Councilmember, it did not.

>>Griffith: okay. Thank you. Certainly we want to be fair, so let's do second reading.

>>Mayor Watson: let me say something that may work better. Let me try that. If we're going to do that, the problem if we pass it on second reading tonight, and we end upcoming back, we won't know -- staff won't know what to draft for a third reading. So the better thing might be to postpone second and third reading to allow Mr. Murphy to visit when he gets back from vacation with those of us that have questions about it so that at least we'll be in a position to know what it is we need to draft for third reading. Then what happens is at the next meeting we bring it up on second reading, at least then at that meeting we'll be able to determine what we're going to need to pass on third reading and move forward. So would you -- postponement of second and third? I'm disg if you will make that motion and I'll ask if it's a friendly amendment to Councilmember Griffith and Councilmember Spelman.

>>Slusher: so move.

>>Mayor Watson: why are you frowning?

>>Spelman: well, I don't believe --.

>>Mayor Watson: that's what my notes were. [Inaudible].

>>Mayor Watson: okay. Is that a friendly amendment? grif if I have grif that's a friendly amendment?

>>Mayor Watson: the motion is to postpone item no. 45 On second and third reading for two weeks, which will allow us to be able to get with Mr. Murphy and even if we pass it just on second reading then, it will put us in a position to deal with what we need to on third reading. Is there any discussion? Mayor pro tem?

>>Goodman: in between time I assume we can get the benefit of the modeling relative to the memo we all got tonight and we can also get a better feel for what the volume and velocity is of the drainage that comes from the sf-2 development up higher behind them. So I don't know who I'm asking, but -- maybe jose, maybe I'll ask him. Okay.

>>Mayor Watson: any further discussion? hearing none, all those in favor say aye. Opposed say no. Motion carries with Councilmember Lewis off the dias. That will take us to item no. 71, The public hearing for the limited purpose annexation of the galloway tract. I'll recognize Mr. Perlmutter.

>> This is the first public hearing on the limited purpose annexation of the galloway tract. This is said fod a second public hearing on 17th. This is a 20 acre tract off of he will roadway road surrounded by the morris crossing mud. The annexation is requested by the owner and they have requested -- they will bring the entire morris crossing mud into limited purpose annexation.

>>Mayor Watson: I don't have any cards for anyone that's signed up to speak at this public hearing, but let me ask. Is there anyone that wishes to be heard in the public hearing for the limited purpose annexation of the galloway tract? is there anyone that wishes to be heard on the limited -- public hearing for the limited purpose public hearing for the galloway tract? is there anyone that wishes to be heard? no one is coming forward. I'll entertain a motion to close the public hearing. Motion is made by Councilmember Spelman -- hang on, we need a quorum.

>>Garcia: we have one.

>>Mayor Watson: motion made by Councilmember Spelman, seconded by Councilmember Garcia to close the public hearing on item no. 71 Hearing none, all those in favor say aye. Opposed say no. The motion carries with the Mayor pro tem, Councilmember Slusher --.

>>Garcia: I have one quick question.

>>Mayor Watson: and Councilmember Garcia off the dias. If you will come forward.

>>Garcia: just a quick question. Can you refresh my memory on what we're doing on morris crossing?

>> morris crossing is one of the muds that was affected by the Bill that allowed them to change the status from limited to -- from full purpose to limited purpose. And we have been talking with the developer and intend to try to work out an agreement whereby during the next year we can have the option of the mud dissolving and bringing that mud into the City similar to what was done with harris branch or what is being considered with harris branch.

>> But this is an action that is independent of that.

>>Garcia: the economics on morris crossing are different than that of galloway, correct?

>> yes.

>>Garcia: this one is not detrimental, so to speak, from a cash flow point of view.

>> That has not been determined yet. In terms of just the annexation of the galloway tract, it is already being subdivided and the plans as part of the mud. It's 20 acres and the remainder of the mud is around 700 achers.

>>Garcia: okay. That's all I have.

>>Mayor Watson: we are very near to 7:30. What I'm going to do is with counsel's permission, call up item no. 32 And see if we can deal with item no. 32 In about a five minute period. And I'll recognize Councilmember Garcia.

>>Garcia: thank you, Mayor. I'm going to move approval of this and I have some questions for Mr. Duncan.

>>Mayor Watson: motion has been made to approve fum no. 32. Is there a second? I'll second it for purposes of discussion. I'll recognize Councilmember Garcia.

>>Garcia: on this particular item, we have money or appropriations moving from a fund that we call planning, environmental and conservation services fund going to the performance contracting fund, correct?

>> yes, sir.

>>Garcia: we're going to do the accounting and performance contracting fund now.

>> Sir?

>>Garcia: he we going do the accounting and performance fund now.

>> Yes, sir.

>>Garcia: there are a couple of other funds that I don't know the interplay between them and the performance contracting fund. What's the Austin energy fund?

>> the Austin energy fund is -- and vicky can help me with the details on that. But we have essentially three funds, one that deals with operations and expenses, one that deals with rebates and one that deals with in essence the capital investment funds. In order to do the proper business accounting that we want, we are simply moving both expenses and revenues related to the performance contracting business all into the performance contracting fund. That will allow us under gap to issue a profit and loss statement without any notations on it because all the funds are consolidated in one fund.

>>Garcia: why didn't we do that at the beginning?

>>Griffith: could I answer your --.

>> Could I answer your Austin energy fund first? that's actually the electric utility fund and all we're doing this is the electric transfers money from there to planning environmental conservation services fund and instead of going there we want it to go to the performance contracting fund. So that's how that one gets built in. The reason we did not do this during the budget process is because it was not --.

>>Garcia: or before. Or before this. These funds were started before the budget.

>> That is correct. We didn't recognize the accounting problem until the budget process was started and the proposed budget was prepared and so rather than jump in at the last minute and try to make all these changes as you were going through the budget akoption process, we felt like it would be better to come back with you with the budget amendment so you could understand everything.

>> And also, Councilmember, this is similar to an action that you took earlier this year and we simply didn't want to get ahead of the budget pro process and we wanted to come back and duplicate the action that you had taken for fiscal year 98. And this contemplates doing the same -- it does the same thing you did at that time for fiscal year 99 so that we can do the proper accounting and report to the resource management commission, as well as the utility commission a profit and loss statement. It has nothing to do with the reorganization. That's a separate issue which I intend to bring to the Council on the 19th.

>>Garcia: but when we reorganize, we're going to a an alignment of funds that are consistent with the organization, correct, so we can hold people responsible for the performance of specific funds?

>> this action would allow us to do a profit and loss statement for this specific business function whether it is something that you approve subsequent to today in terms of the reorganization it will bring to you to the 19th or whether you don't do that. Those people will still be accountable and we'll be able to do financial documents to show how we've done --.

>>Garcia: my point is -- accounting is nothing more than a reflex of what actually happened. And -- reflection of what actually happened. And if we're doing something in the organizational structure, the accounting and reporting ought to be consistent with that. And I'm saying the question that I'm asking is does this do that.

>> Yes, sir, it does. And it does that whether the reorganization takes place or not. It puts everything together so we can issue a profit and loss statement that shows exactly whether we're making a profit or whether we're accepting a loss wherever that business group is located.

>>Garcia: so in the reorganization it's more, you might say, insignificant?

>> in relation to this accounting it is inconsequential. It does not matter whether you reorganize or not. We need this budget amendment in order to issue a profit and loss statement, even if the reorganization doesn't take place.

>>Garcia: you're not going to come back after you reorganize and do another one of these?

>> no, sir.

>>Garcia: okay. That's all the questions I have, Mayor.

>>Mayor Watson: motion was made and seconded to approve item no. 32. Mr. Robbins? Paul robbins? [one moment, please] I would like to acknowledge that some of the anderson mill mud staff that we have been working here, Mr. David harper the president of the board who could not be here tonight, but the treasurer of the board, Mr. Bill burk is attending this evening. The -- let me start out by giving a brief highlight of the summary of the proposed strategic partnership agreement and then I'll talk briefly about if annexations that go along with this as pa. Basically the strategic partnership establishes a date for the full purpose annexation of the entire anderson mill mud. It's proposed at that point that that date be in five years, the year 2003. And that upon the full purpose annexation of the entire mud, the mud will convert to a limited district to provide certain park services for the local area. During that period of time, before full purpose annexation of the entire mud, the City is able to collect retail sales tax on from the commercial areas in the mud through the limited purpose and proposed full purpose annexation that is part of this agreement. We're proposing to annex the west side commercial areas for limited purposes and the one area on the east side, a small area, for full purposes, and this is only the commercial portion of the mud. The reason for the full purpose annexation is primarily to assure that there is not a donut hold in the service area. The entire 183 area that fronts the east side of the road is in the full purpose City limits and receives its services from the City and if we were not to annex this small area there would be in effect a donut hole regarding the provision of emergency services which we feel is a public safety issue. And that's the reason that we're posing that for full purpose annexation. The strategic partnership agreement calls for the mud at the end of the exemption period from annexation to be essentially free of any debt, bond debt or obligation so the City would not inherit any bond or debt obligations of the mud upon full annexation. A limited district that would be converted to, upon full purpose annexation, would have the ownership and maintenance authority for the parks and recreation facilities that would be available for public access as well as the residents of the anderson mill mud. The limited district would also be able to collect fwar beige and dispose of garbage and enforce deed restrictions. The mud -- the district would also be subject to an election by the residents for the conversion and creation of the limited district at the end of the five-year period. Excuse me. And any taxes -- any taxes that that limited district could assess after its creation. As another part of this strategic partnership agreement, there is a provision by which the mud would convert the waste water treatment plant to a reclaimed waste water treatment plant that would be able to produce effluent that is usable for irrigation purposes on some of the recreation facilities or government courses in the vicinity. Basically the mud board of directors have agreed to all the provisions as the staff has recommended and all of these provisions we're in agreement on except for the period of exemption. Our recommendation to you is five years, and I believe the mud board is trying to get the City Council to agree to a longer period of time, but all the other provisions have been agreed to. Now, if I could switch to the annexation components because this is also a public hearing for the annexation.

>>Mayor Watson: go for it.

>> There are four areas that are proposed for limited purpose annexation, there is a planning study that is required as part of that, and the period of limited purpose in the case of strategic partnership can exceed the three years before it's annexed for full purposes so these four areas, this is a public hearing for their annexation for limited purposes. The area on the east side of 183 that is in the mud, the commercial areas, festival creek shopping center, at least a portion of it because some of it is already in full purpose, is being proposed full purpose annexation. The mud will continue to provide the water and sewer and retail services to this yarb. The City will provide the remainder of the services. The area will be taxed by both the City and the mud for the period prior to full purpose annexation of the entire mud and its dissolution. We're proposing that the annexation effective date of that full purpose annexation on the east side be January 2nd to minimize the property tax impact of this additional tax that the full purpose annexation will cause. The City will provide all of the other services that are required by law and that basically ends my presentation concerning the spa and the annexations. Excuse me, the mud has already had one of its public hearings in october, and is scheduled to have another public hearing as is required next week on this issue. Thank you.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you. Anybody have any questions at this time? we have two people signed up to speak on the public hearing. Bill burk. Do you wish to speak? please come forward.

>> My name is Bill burk, a mud board member for anderson mill. I would like to thank you for your cooperation in working on this strategic partnership. We're very happy with all the activities and the staff and the cooperation. We would like to request the year 2005 as we've discussed. We are consistent. And we would like really serious consideration of that.

>>Mayor Watson: and trust me when I tell you there is a lot of consideration going into it. So thank you. And on behalf of the Council I want to thank you all for the way that you've approached this and in the spirit of cooperation. And it may be one of those situations where we're able to demonstrate that the strategic partnership agreements can work in a way that makes everybody feel good about them

>> there is a lot of other muds watching us work together and I think it's been very positive for everybody to observe.

>>Mayor Watson: great. Thank you, Mr. Burk. Elizabeth ellison. Councilmember, if you will pass those out. Welcome.

>> My name is elizabeth ellison, I'm a resident of anderson mill. I'm also an officer of the anderson mill neighborhood association. What I've handed out is a list of several concerns that we have -- have with the agreement. I think the consensus among the residents is that they agree with the agreement; however, we do have some concerns that are addressed here which we hope the Council will take into consideration when they -- when it comes time for approval of the agreement. I don't expect an answer to all of these points tonight, but what I would like to do is read them so they will be in the record and ask the Council to forward these concerns to the appropriate staff so they may be -- so that our neighborhood association could get a response to these and which we in turn or me as an officer of the association could pass on to our residents. Just as I said, I would just like to read into the record what these concerns are. The first question of course as I understand, the Council has not decided on the year for the full purpose annexation, and we are asking for -- we are in agreement with the mud it should be for seven years because of the provision that at the end of the limited purpose annexation all of the -- all of the excess funds or not the surplus funds, but the other funds must be used to pay off any debt that the district may still have in existence. This would allow us to also amass more funds so that we could have something from which to operate, use to operate to maintain the limited district's operations, that being the parks and the pools. And also allow us to earn further -- additional moneys to pay off that debt. Because in reading this agreement, the sense that I get at the time of annexation, the City will not be assuming any debt whatsoever. So this, I think, would be beneficial to both sides, allowing us the additional two years. The second concern deals with section 2.06 b regarding no further action by the City upon full purpose annexation, and our question is why not just have the City comply with statute rather than allow it to elect whether or not to proceed under statute. We have a question on section 3.04 b. Why does the City decide on the use of the surplus funds to pay off all the debts prior to conversion of the limited district, and if this is done what does the City assume. That's the point I brought up earlier. And if this is done, this does not leave the district with any moneys to operate our pools and parks. [Buzzer sounds]. Again --.

>>Mayor Watson: let me tell you how we will proceed.

>> All right.

>>Mayor Watson: one is I'm going to ask Mr. Pardon me tor get with you tonight and walk through -- I anticipate that he's probably got an answer to all 12 of these questions. That's step one in starting the process. Step 2 is we have a public hearing that will be scheduled in the anderson mill municipal utility district. What's the date of that again?

>> the anderson mill mud itself is to conduct two public hearings. They've had one, they have another one scheduled for october -- november 12th, I believe.

>> I understand that, butted I also understand that this is not in conjunction with the City Council.

>>Mayor Watson: that's fine. I'm sorry, but I misspoke. What I was going to suggest is with that date being what it is that there should be an opportunity for your questions to be answered and that would give you, a, you an opportunity to get with the neighborhood association; b, because there is another event scheduled in that area, at that event there would be an opportunity for their to be answers to these questions. I think it's great that you've actually put them down like this so we know exactly what the target is in terms of trying to answer those questions so that provides a good process for ands those.

>> I invite the Council or any members of the Council to attend who is like to see who is annexing us. Thank you.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you very much. There are no other people that I have cards for to speak on this. Let me ask, is there anyone else who wishes to be heard to consider the strategic partnership agreement with the anderson mill municipal utility district and to consider limited purpose annexation of certain commercial tracts and full purpose annexation of certain commercial tracts in the anderson mill municipal utility district fkt anyone wishing to be heard? I'll entertain a motion to close the public hearing. Motion made by Councilmember Garcia and seconded by the Mayor pro tem. Any discussion? hearing none, all those in favor say aye. Opposed say no. The motion carries with Councilmember Spelman and Councilmember Lewis off the dias. All right. What we will do is go back to item no. 79. Before we do that, let me describe how I think we ought to proceed and see if Council will agree. It is 15 till -- close to 15 till 8:00, not quite, but what I would suggest is take another 45 minutes of hearing on item no. 79 And then go to item no. 61 And go for 45 minutes on item no. 61, Which was also set for a time certain, and hopefully we can get through item 61 in a 45-minute period, and then continue with other items. And I know that some people are wondering when we're going to get to their items. If they weren't set for a time certain, this is one of those nights with a lot on the agenda. And so as you can see, we're taking up as many items as I can get taken up as rapidly as we can. Also on item no. 79, We have received a legal opinion that in order to comply with law and the 60-day requirement, 60 days on item no. 79 Would expire on november 9th, so it is a necessity because of the scheduling of Council meets that we act tonight or else it is an automatic determination. So we will need to vote on item no. 80 Tonight. So I just mention that to Council and I don't have a lawyer around right now, but I am assuming if I'm saying something wrong somebody will correct me at some point. But in any event let's go back to item no. 79. Folks, I know you've observed that we've got a lot of people on other items and that's why we're going back and forth. We have 130 people signed up to speak and we're at no. 25. Again, if you just reiterating the same point, just tell us that's what you are doing. And that way we'll be in a position to be did he ever even shall to those other people that have important items. Rosy armstrong. Rosy armstrong. Rosy armstrong. Ms. Armstrong signed up against up to me in our neighborhood. Sylvia herrera. Please come forward. Elizabeth snipes. She signed up against up to me in the neighborhood. Is she here?

>> ms. Snipes is here.

>>Mayor Watson: do you wish to speak? if you will make your way over to this direction. Joann sneed. She signed up against. Lisa sanchez. Lisa sanchez. She signed up against the facility in our neighborhood. Rachel feit, rarb he will feit. She signed up against. Joy delneal. She signed up against. Jane haney. Jane haney. Do you wish to speak or be shown in opposition?

>> I will speak.

>>Mayor Watson: all right. If you will make your way up. Just for the record, we're now up to 135 people. Ms. Herrera.

>> Council, I again ask why in East Austin, why the relocation of a facility that right now is presently located in a commercial area that's -- their present location is north lamar. They want to move to a residential area. They want to move into a neighborhood area that has a lot of social services targeted to children and to the elderly. But I'm going to try to address that issue of why, and again, it's the zoning. It's again the compatibility or lack of come pat ibltd the neighborhood. This is not a question of whether we're against rehab centers or treatment centers, but it's a question of compatibility and consistent with the neighborhood, with the area. A lot of the property owners on webberville were sent this map by the broker owner and what it is stating is that these property owners should consider a zoning of their single family homes to commercial use, and so what the broker owner is trying to do is to make this a commercial use street. Again, you can see by this map that there is single family three right across from the facility, there is a clinic and there is single family all around and this is where acc is going to be. Again, I state that right now we've been working a lot of zoning issues and looking at the East Austin area as being zoned or overzoned in terms of light industrial and commercial services, and we don't need more zoning of commercial use. What we need is the continuation of single family homes, the residential homes. Right now we're even addressing the fact that some residential homes are zoned industrial. So again, we don't want this facility because it's not consistent and it's not compatible in a neighborhood area. I think that a lot of the residents are -- not only that but there's the other treatment centers, other rehab centers in the area so this is just one more treatment center in the area so I think that that is the concern there is the number of sitings already or the location of these type of facilities in East Austin and in particular this neighborhood. Thank you. [Applause].

>>Goodman: thank you.

>> Mayor and Councilmembers, I don't have very much to say because everyone has said just what I was going to say and we don't want to repeat this ourselves. I'm elizabeth snipes president of the roads wood neighborhood association and we have got a real positive things and as they say we are getting ready to work with the City to build more single family homes and we just want to -- I just want to let you know that I am against it. Thank you.

>>Goodman: thank you, ma'am. After Dr. Haney is trudy briger.

>> I'm here.

>>Goodman: okay.

>> I will take less than a minute.

>>Goodman: if you will go right over here, you will be -- ma'am, if you will -- so you know you will be after jane haney. If you will go right over to this one you will be right after my dear doctor.

>> Thank you, Mayor pro tem Goodman. And Mayor and Councilmembers, thank you very much for this opportunity to speak. I just want to make two very brief points, that one of which is a continuation of one that was sort of brought up earlier. But one that we haven't mentioned so far is all this tremendous success has been through City assistance. The rosewood glenn oaks neighborhood was 20 years ago or so when I moved to Austin an urban renewal district. Wi have made so much tremendous progress with City assistance that we are now -- we were just informed that we are no longer a target neighborhood for the community development block grants or anything else, we've graduated we are successful. We are just like any west or south Austin neighborhood and we are very proud of that. And we thank you for past assistance. [Applause]. And we want to keep it that way so that's why we want your help in not locating this facility in our neighborhood. Not at that particular location, as has been said, we're willing to talk about other potential locations, but not that one. And the second point is, as you've noticed, just a tiny handful of people who are here tonight speaking for the facility moving to that location are really from the neighborhood. They are from other neighborhoods. And they obviously have a tremendous amount of support where they are located and they must be doing great things at that location so therefore I would like to ask you all to give any assistance that the City can give to its up to me to help them to expand at their current location or some location that's appropriate for them because they obviously have tremendous support where they are. Thank you so much. [Applause].

>>Goodman: thank you. The next speaker is joe quintero if he is here. Are you here? okay. He was against. How about james steward? does not want in our neighborhood. James stew weather.

>> There's two of us.

>> Okay, james l..

>> Okay.

>>Goodman: thank you, ma'am, for waiting. Go right ahead.

>> In the -- the Mayor is absent and the Councilmembers --.

>>Goodman: they are watching on the monitor. We are taking turns eating so that we can --

>> thank you. I'm from the neighborhood association. It hasn't been very long ago since we were here and you supported us in our taken in a hill concern. Those apartments that were located in back of us and we did express to you many ways how appreciative we were to have you consider us as being a part of that decision making of the same support in this community concerning the rehabilitation center that's going up, I would like again to be a part of that. I really support and religiously meet with the charlie sector and -- in our charlie sector meeting, and we are involved in the community and actually in East Austin. I think most of us are familiar with how we are broken up in sections through the police department. And I'm looking forward to I'm voting no and that's the only thing I'm saying repetitious, not because of the services that are needed in Austin, I want to share with you that I worked over three years and I'm using personal pro noun, there were others of course, but I'm speaking for myself tonight, over three years with the criminal justice that is located on webberville road and -- to developings a curriculum, and I still work with them at the criminal justice center. I work with academic committee and I am in agreement to do the services, I visited several times that are needed there. So I want to let you know that I do not oppose such services. I'm not total support of it. So much so that I want to be involved in the decision making with this honor so we can help him come up with something constructive. Thank you. [Applause].

>>Goodman: thank you. Okay. We're up to 136. Mr. Stewart is going to donate his time to someone when the time comes that he wants to donate so I've got your card in abeyance here. Fill list barkley.

>> I'm against and I want to donate my time to John pearson

>>Goodman: I'm sorry, to whom?

>> joann pearson. Okay. Helga Williams. Then it's your turn to do so. And after ms. Williams-on I had two here from -- okay, suzanna armanza. She was here. You will be next. Thank you.

>> Good evening, Council and Mayor pro tem Jackie. I'm the construction supervisor on the renovation of the building on webberville road, the new home, hopefully, for the up to me. And in the last couple of months I've been working with about ten people, residents from up to me. They have been helping me with painting and with the renovation. And I got to know these guys very well, and, you know, learned a lot about their previous problems and how everything is done there, and I've been very impressed in every aspect with them. They are reliable, excellent workers and have a professional work ethic in every which way. I brought some along, but I think they are still outside. They didn't get back from the break. From everything I have experienced with them and with the Council was very, very impressive. I believe strongly that up to me, there has been improvement -- would bring improvement to that neighborhood because by working there I also notice what is going on there. And that neighborhood -- I mean as you all know, it's a very difficult neighborhood. And I really believe that -- that by up to me moving in that neighborhood that will improve the neighborhood. And I -- and really also by listen to go the neighbors here on the opposition, I really have not heard a real reason from the opposition other than it's some more emotional suggestion or feelings about this. There's not really, you know, from the City planning viewpoint, scientific explanation, I have not gotten any of that and, you know, that is what I look for as a City planner. And I believe if the opposing neighbors really would make an effort to get to know up to me I have a very, very strong feeling that they would be very, very pleased having them move into their neighborhood. And, you know, I'm in general very critical and to Councilmembers that know me know that I'm very critical about a lot of issues and I would not say that if I don't really believe strongly that this would be a very good move for that neighborhood and I think it would solve their special needs because of the people there. [Buzzer sounds]. In the facility and-coming out of that neighborhood. So I hope that --.

>>Garcia: let me ask you a question. Do you live in this area?

>> no, I don't. [Applause].

>>Garcia: which area do you live in?

>> that is -- I live on fifth street and I would have some things to say about that too. I wish it would move there and rather the industrial development which has been, you know, gone on in the last 25 years on that area. So I would not oppose it if they would move across the street from me. And we have one of the -- I live in one of the most prestigious condominiums in town, I believe.

>>Garcia: you are saying if we find a site close to you, you would want it there?

>> absolutely. Absolutely. Because the guys, they adjust, absolutely great guys. And you've got to understand what procedure they went through. I mean they made a mistake in their life, you know, and we all make mistakes, but --.

>>Garcia: you understand that this neighborhood where you are want to go put it has been working very hard to get strong.

>> I understand that.

>>Garcia: you say that this center would make it stronger and they are saying no.

>> They are not all --.

>>Garcia: wait a second. I'm not talking to you. The people who have come heefr -- will you have your chance to speak. The people who have come here to speak who live in that area have told us that they don't think it will strengthen the neighborhood. That's what I'm saying.

>> Gus, if I may, you know, I'm -- my background, my education background is also City planning and, you know, I don't know if you [inaudible] a proposal at the time turning to City for the downtown development and this kind of facilities was a part of my idea, you know, how consolidated City master plan should look like because that is the social infrastructure of a City, you know, develops out of these type of facilities and in order to understand that you have to have a consolidated master plan. Unfortunately the City of Austin has never made the effort really to do a scientific master plan, to develop these -- you know, these issues.

>>Garcia: I understand that. And the concerns that they are expressing is that East Austin gets more than their share of things that they think weaken their neighborhood.

>> And I tell you I'm really feeling with you and I'm working with with a lot of people in East Austin, you know, and I somehow always get with them because I share their feelings because, you know, I'm a women -- woman owned business and I'm a minority as well and so I know where they are coming from because I have been discriminated for the 25 years I've been in this country. So it's not -- I'm not saying this.

>>Garcia: thank you.

>>Goodman: thank you, hilda. [Applause]. After susan in a is Charles tutt, I believe. Am I reading that right? Charles tutt?

>> what number?

>>Goodman: no. 40. Charles tutt. That is you. Okay then you will be the next speaker and you can come on up after susanna. Then kathy watts. She will be after that. Go ahead. Thank you.

>> Good evening. Mayor pro tem and City Council my name is susanna, people in defense of earth and her resources and I want to state for the record no one has expressed a opposition to any kind of alcohol or drug treatment center or rehabilitation of felons. What has been the main issue here is the issue of come pattability. Acc has moved into the neighborhood and one of the things that I would like to propose is that when arc comes to East Austin it falls short of always projecting further. When you look at other areas, acc always abidz -- buys additional property with the intent that they are going to expand. And I think that acc really needs to look at purchasing this property because it backs up to right next to where acc is at. So acc needs to also look for -- look into the growth when it comes to East Austin. The other thing that this issue brings to the forefront is the East Austin overlay district ordinance. Again here is a loophole. Because it did cover all -- it's in the East Austin overlay area, but when they listed it they did not list drug treatment facilities, those kind of facilities. So we have another loophole that has been brought to the forefront and a reason that the different committees and the Planning Commission need to work faster because we have a lot of vacant facilities out there that need to be in some kind of compliance or flagged immediately for downzoning. This particular facility has been put on the planning commission agenda for downzoning for general office to be in come pattability with all the go that acc has in that area and we feel that would be even a better zoning with conditions in that area. And so it is something that is -- has been initiated by the Planning Commission. You've heard from the neighbors here on their not wanting this particular facility in the neighborhood. Not that they don't want people to get treatment of any kind of sort. So I think that debate is not whether this is a good treatment or whether we're turning people away, but whether it is compatible at a time when we need that the zoning has been a terrific mess in East Austin, when east Austin is inundated with these facilities. And how they start off saying they are going to do this and this and they don't end up doing. A rehab house was force to do close down because the board made a decision, the state said you are going to have to take in rapists and child molesters. The board had to make a critical decision and voted no the state took away their moneys, demas is no longer there. We've seen that with even the criminal justice system. It was supposed to be our neighborhood place. [Buzzer sounds]. Once the state gets in it starts making conditions so I ask to you deny them having that location in this particular spot and that we work harder to look at those sites that are left in east Austin before this happens again. Thank you.

>>Goodman: thank you. [Applause]. Mr. Tutt and after him is kathy watts. You will be next. Thank you.

>> To the concerned citizens that are here tonight, I would like to say thank you for being here and to the City Council members thanks for giving me this opportunity to express the facts, and what I hope to address here are just the facts. Most of you are too young in this audience to remember the dragnet program, but joe friday used to say use is facts, ma'am. What I hope to do here is say what are the facts about the monitoring and security up up to me of its persons there in the facility. First of all, I would like to state that the persons that are coming to up to me are -- have -- have completed a very rigid program of substance abuse as outlined by the state of Texas. Now, we talk about security. The greatest security that we have at up to me is don't mess with Texas. And this is a compliance that these residents come to this facility, having admitted that there are some mistakes and now correct -- making corrective measures. They are accountable to not only myself and the staff members there, but to all of the citizens and there is a number that get immediate results and that number is 911 Austin, Texas. And furthermore, the state of Texas, the long arm of the state of Texas will provide the necessary restraints for any violations of these persons who -- who willingly come up to to me for rehabilitation and processing through the criminal justice system. This is not a punitive action, this is a voluntary action. Now, about the impact and the security concerns of the citizens of East Austin, we have persons here that do not drink and do not drug. Now, I don't know what is down the street from you in those citizens that supposedly pay taxes within that community, but I did not hear a concern about heb, nor did I hear a concern about food land who sell beverages that are detrimental to-ee that are intoxicants. There are more terns there. I would like to say something here and I've heard this, there is a principle which [inaudible] which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man or woman in every lasting ignorance and that principle is contempt prior to investigation. So before we go through contempt, let us say what are the rules that regulate these persons' behavior at up to me. Upon going to work, and I am a monitor at up to me, I'm one of 24 hours of constant supervision that is there. I am 18 a team member that -- a team member that comes in and supervise. [Buzzer sounds].

>>Goodman: what I can ask you to do is sum up or somebody can donate time to you. Can I know your name? [inaudible] okay. Mike freetag and if he needs it -- romero. If you need it you have six more minutes.

>> Thank you. The responsibilities as I began my shift as a monitor at night, 12 a.m., I come into work and I read the initial communication log which indicates to me and let's me know what has happened in the 16 hours prior to me coming to this shift. I -- there are records that indicate to me any significant events that have happened during the 16 hours prior to me coming there. During the first eight hours of that shift there are licensed chemical dependent counselors and other trained clinical staff members that are supervising the daily operations and supervision of those persons under our care. The next thing is that what is going on in that 16 hours or the eight hours preceding me is that the house rules have been rigidly enforced or else those persons are not able to -- able participate in outside activities. From has been some question about the alarm system or security system. When I come to work, there is an alarm system which has been updated that is so sensitive that even if the wind blows against the window it has activated itself to let me know that something is amiss within the security system, which means that I must promptly get up and identify what is the cause of the problem. That problem has been identified as room 13 which happens to be one of our counselor's office. He is now at present here. So this is how sensitive of a security system is. No one can get into our out of the facility except by going through -- by me. There is no other way out and there is no other way in. If there is another way out and if that person chooses to go out that exit, then the alarm system will go off and the necessary precautions are made in order to call to the proper authorities as to what is going on. The clients that are there, they sign in and out. To leave the facility and that in and out, signout is authorized by persons other than myself. Usually the clinical staff or person that are employed to work with the persons there. To supervise and to regulate their rehabilitation and their recovery program. It's up to me, we have a at random drug test. I don't think that, you know, what that means is that simply this. The residents of up to me are required by law to go -- undergo a at random drug test for any probable cause as determined by the staff members or myself. Refusal to do a drug test means that you are automatically up on shutdown and this process will be reviewed and the next process is to be processed out of up to me. We have a zero tolerance for drugs. We have a zero tolerance for non-compliance to the rules of up to me. These rules are openly complied with upon admission of up to me. We do not house people who are there against their will. Once they are there, they fully accept the responsibilities of the guidelines which adhere their behavior. Any non-adherence to those guidelines are severely met and met with stringent rules and enforcement of those guidelines. Those persons are out. Now, as far as the impact of the community, I would say, in my opinion, the persons that are up to me are role models for the citizens or for any person that wish to see a person who has made a mistake in his life and is making a -- making adjustments and doing positive things for recovery and being a responsible citizen. [Applause]. Putting politics aside, the governor was by a landslide was elected and in the newspaper there of him accepting this landslide victory was responsibility. At up to me, I am responsible to clients -- the clients are responsible and the state of Texas are responsible for compliance with the rules and doing that which is right. And the greatest freedom this this country has is doing right because it is right to do right, and up to me we do it right. Thank you and I will answer questions --. [Applause].

>>Goodman: thank you. Kathy watts and after kathy is joann piercey who will have six minutes.

>> Good afternoon. Mayor, Council people. My name is katherine watts and I am a citizen in the east Austin neighborhood. For 3 years I've lived there -- 33 years I've lived there. I am a grandmother, mother, great grandmother and I do take care of my grandchildren during the day and I do not like the idea of this facility being in my neighborhood. I have nothing against the facility. I have nothing against the program. Because I think basically it's a good program. But I tell you what, they came through the neighborhood, they didn't put out flyers in all the -- in the -- in a two block radius they didn't put out any pliers. I didn't get one. I had to find out from people across town. And I don't think that's right. When you come into a neighborhood, if you are good and everything is on the up and up, you say we are here. Do you accept us? yes, you can be accepted like that. But when you try to hide, I went to the meeting and it just went to chaos. People talking and this one saying this, the other saying the other thing. I mean I don't like that and I don't think that we should have them in our neighborhood with our kids because the kids are young, sure, second condition you can have a second chance, but somewhere else. Not in my neighborhood. With my kids. And with my babies that I love. And I love all the kids in the neighborhood, not only just mine. And I do for all the kids in the neighborhood because I watch them go to school in the morning. I watch them come home. And I tell you what, I don't think you need to be in our neighborhood. Thank you. [Applause].

>>Goodman: thank you.

>> I'm a member of the rosewood neighborhood association. I've lived in my neighborhood for 15 years. I would like to talk about a few facts. One is that I went to the web, the world wide web and looked up statistics from the Texas criminal department of justice. Their 1997 summary had statistics on treatment for the whole state of Texas and all the treatment centers. And out of 100%, there were over I think there were 15 or 18% that either just disappeared from the treatment centers, they said absconded, or they were sent back to prison. So we're not talking about perfect regard here, we're talking about a calculated risk. And I'm not willing to have a calculated risk in my neighborhood. It only has to happen once. That's all it takes. And I'm not willing to take it. Thank you. Imentd to donate the rest of my time to Robert allen.

>>Goodman: too whom? I'm sorry. I couldn't -- Robert allen. Okay. Thank you. That's five minutes and two seconds to Robert allen. The next person is linda norris. Okay. If you would like -- you don't want to speak? okay. To Dr. Daifs. Okay. -- Davis. Okay. Bobby cervantes. Okay. When your number comes up you get her three minutes. But I'm still going in order. We're now on no. 44. He is no. 44. After him is horacio jones. Okay. Who is in favor. John write.

>> Right here.

>>Goodman: then you will be next. Go ahead.

>> I previously purchased John's body shop. Down the street from this facility they want to put there. I am for it because I feel we do need something like that in the neighborhood. I've lived in the neighborhood in and out all my life and I've seen a lot of destruction from drugs and alcohol, but mainly from alcohol. And I grew up this the environment which is very violent and very abusive with drug and alcohol. Had a family in prison, one died because of that. And I feel that this is very appropriate. And people need it. Seriously. And I'm for it. I'm right down the street. That's all have I to say.

>>Goodman: okay. Thank you. [Applause]. Let me call horacio jones again. Okay. He was in favor. After Mr. Wright is Paul miller. Please.

>> Good evening. Citizens of Austin, I'm one of the typical people that reside there at up to me. One who wants to go on with his life, work hard, participate in society to give back. We bring our families to this place. We go there to show the neighborhood as we leave early in the morning and we come in late at night, we have functions and we participate, bringing aa and na out to our groups and people in the neighborhood to show that we have the ability to become an influence in the neighborhood. We attend your churches. We help out. We would like to show the children of the neighborhood this is what working people are. We're not prisoners. We're not convicts. We give back and we want to show the best way we can. We help each other. Mr. Charles is very typical of the quality that we have at this unit. To -- not only do we have monitors and security, butts we have each other. We're not going to let anybody fail. We have too much that waes on our shoulders. They can pull us back in at any moment for any mistake. And we don't want to make a mistake. We don't want to go back. As we promised our children and our family and to anyone that would listen to us that we are everything that we should be, that we failed to do because of drugs and alcohol. I'm working currently building some of the most fancy projects. I worked on the state capitol. I built the house of the richest man almost in the state of Texas. I work here doing the daughter of our president's, working on a big project. For 12 hours I got $180 in a check here. And these people I love to bring and show that it's easy enough to work. All you got to do is show up and participate. But we have to prove to the counselors, to the monitors and all we'll do it sober. We'll abide by their rules. And these people have given their time and effort to make us succeed. We are not going the fail them. We're not going to fail the people around us who think that we can. It's not a mistake, because this facility is ready for us. And there is other people waiting. And we need a place that will accommodate our needs. Because right now it's tight and after we work a long day, we start out at 5:00 in the morning. [Buzzer sounds]. We start with a meeting at 5:to.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you, sir. Thank you very much. [Applause]. Was that Mr. Wright? Mr. Miller.

>> Yes.

>>Mayor Watson: Mr. Miller, you will be followed by scottie ivory. Welcome, sir.

>> Thank you. Good evening. I'll be brief. I'm Paul miller, I am senior vice president of hartland bank here in town. We're a community based bank, we're a quiet support irrelevant of many organizations within the community. Up to me is one of those organizations among others in East Austin that we support. We also support the landowner in this case. I'm here to speak in favor of this relocation. Largely because -- I think part of it there is this misunderstanding, there's some information needs to be given. Up to me wasn't out seeking a location in East Austin when they started this process. The facility drew them there. This is a facility that is very, very well suited for this type of organization. It's previously a convalescent center. It came very well suited for their purposes another issue I just want to bring out is there has been some discussion tonight about -- and I heard support from the people in the neighborhood were up to me -- where up to me currently is located, I don't hear much about problems, I know the history of up to me is that they have not had a history of problems with their clients, so there doesn't appear to be much evidence. I heard the other young lady speaking of facts and evidence. I haven't heard much in the way of evidence brought forth tonight that shows up that to me has problems that the neighborhood should even worry about. So --. [Applause]. So I challenge the neighborhood that please investigate all of the facts about up to me's history, and if there are -- if there are opportunities that the neighborhood might have to be involved with up to me and the landowner to provide insight to what type of facility they might -- or how they might modify the facility if in fact they see fit, but I do believe there is a history there that shows that up to me doesn't have these kind of problems. Appreciate your time tonight.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you very much. [Applause]. Next speaker will be ms. Ivory. She will be the last speaker we will hear before we recess the public hearing, and we will go at that point to what was the 4:30 time certain. And take those -- we will take up those matters. Welcome, ms. Ivory.

>> Hi. First I would like to say I'm glad to get the opportunity to speak this evening, get to see all of you. I want to say that I'm an advocate for the rehabilitation center -- facilities and I have introduced some programs that I would like to see to stop the revolving doors. According to this organization that wants to come into the neighborhood, it's not no, it's not up to me. It's up to the neighborhood what they want in their neighborhood. [Applause]. I have no right telling this neighborhood who they should have in their neighborhood. It's just like I have no right telling you what to do in your house. It's the same thing applies to them. And I know -- you know that there was a facility -- a rehab facility at vision village, and that's a plenty room there. I had thought about putting -- since they have all the -- all sort of -- they have cottages, they have workshops, they have laundries, they have just all types of different buildings, even cottages there. They could use that -- that could be used to the fullest extent. And I had introduced that one time to one of the county officials, what they could use it for. And they -- and these are some smart people. These people that has gone to prison and back, they are very smart and they have learned very good skills. And I think they should put these skills to use. But I don't think you should make your way and force yourself in somebody else neighborhood. Thank you very much. [Applause].

>>Mayor Watson: thank you ms. Ivory. We will recess the hearing on item no. 79. Ms. Glascow, are you here?

>>Goodman: Mayor, could we mention what number ms. Ivory was?

>>Mayor Watson: yeah. She was no. 48.

>>Goodman: out of 100 and --.

>>Mayor Watson: out of 137. [One moment please].

>>Mayor Watson: I'll entertain that too. Do you second that motion, Mayor pro tem?

>>Goodman: yes.

>>Mayor Watson: motion has been made and seconded to approve the consent agenda as read. Is there any discussion? hearing none, all those in favor say aye. Opposed say no. The motion carries. That will take us back to item no. 61.

>> Item no. 61 Is case no. C 14-98-78 located at fort view road and intersection of west ben white boulevard in that vicinity. The property is currently zoned for single family purposes, single family three. The applicant is seeking to change that to commercial services. The staff recommendation was to grant limited lr, which stands for neighborhood commercial services simply because that would provide a transition between ben white boulevard, which is a highway that is separated by an overpass and also to provide a transition into the neighborhood sints the majority of the properties along ben white boulevard and some properties along manchaca road have commercial zoning, while the interior of the subdivision still has some residential development in zoning. While the staff recommendation was to down scale what the applicant requested to a more neighborly type of zoning district, the planning commission felt that the area does not need to be rezoned and recommended denial of any zoning change. There is a valid petition of 28% against any change in zoning from the surrounding area, so you are required to have six votes at least in order to overrule the petition. The properties that are being rezoned somewhat in the middle of a block between manchaca road and ben white boulevard. The surrounding zoning varies from single family to office, commercial and retail. This is in an area that is in transition. There are a mixture of land uses and in staff's opinion we felt that a neighborhood oriented type of zoning, neighborhood commercial, would be more appropriate and compatible and in keeping with the character of the neighborhood; however, as I indicated just in summary and conclusion, that the planning commission recommended denial of any zoning change on this property and again, there is a valid petition on this property. I will conclude there and respond to questions as they arise.

>>Mayor Watson: who is representing the applicant here tonight?

>>.

>> I am.

>>Mayor Watson: all right. If you will come forward. You will have five minutes to make your presentation.

>> I believe that we've come to some type of agreement with the neighbors with the petition and they've got that here to present this evening. And if they could be recognized to present that.

>>Mayor Watson: okay. Who is representing? please come forward, ma'am. What is your name.

>> Catherine coal.

>>Mayor Watson: okay.

>> Good evening. I'll try to talk quickly. I know you have a long night. What we've passed out was -- let me back up a moment. The City staff had indicated that -- they initially requested commercial. We are opposed. We were then, we remain opposed to commercial. After the review by the Planning Commission, we did ask -- we did offer to the applicant neighborhood office. Initially just to the two ben white properties. Because we were concerned about the did he stabsation of those properties and were trying to take into account their interest as well. We met with the applicants, all the applicants and the agent recently and then later decided to not oppose neighborhood office for all four lots, which I think that as far as either side goes, it's not an ideal solution for either side or I think the most desirable outcome, but I think it's -- it's a fair resolution or at least one that better takes into account the differing interests that we all have. What I would just like to mention real quickly is that the proposed alternative that we have made copies for you, we would be indicating that we're not opposed to neighborhood office for the four lots, provided that it's subject to the zoning conditions that are enumerated there. And I can read those into the record if necessary or you can take this as is.

>>Mayor Watson: I'm not sure you need to do that right now. Hang on one second. Is the applicant's representative here?

>> yes.

>>Mayor Watson: are you in agreement with this?

>> I'm a little uncertain here if we could ask for more time. I think that that would be appropriate to work out --.

>>Mayor Watson: let me tell you. We can do that in a couple of ways, but one of the ways is if you think you're -- the way you started this by having her come up during the period of time that was your presentation, you led me to believe that you were in agreement with where they were were --.

>> I thought we were.

>>Mayor Watson: so that there was no valid petition and no difficulty there. So if you believe you're in agreement --.

>> Yes.

>>Mayor Watson: -- one of the things that we could do to allow for a little more time and since there's not an ordinance anyway, is we could pass this document, this et agreement' first reading, which means that we would have staff draft an ordinance. It would have to come back and during that intervening time if you had some lack of clarity that you wanted to clear up, y'all could work on that before it came back here. Are you in agreement with that, ma'am, ms. Cole?

>> I think so.

>>Mayor Watson: we can't pass it on all three readings tonight anyway, but if there is some lack of clarity that can be handled, but it would be the agreement that you've handed out.

>> Except I would like to state for the record we did come here tonight. It was continued by the other side the last time. We thought we were going to have closure on it a month ago. We thought we were coming here in complete agreement.

>>Mayor Watson: it sounds to me that's what you were getting. We couldn't pass it tonight on all three readings anyway.

>> I understand.

>>Mayor Watson: with that being said -- you keep raising your hand.

>> I'm waving at ms. Glasgow.

>>Mayor Watson:.

>> And the reason is what we will bring back to you will be a combination of a restrictive covenant because these are not all appropriate for an ordinance.

>>Mayor Watson: I understand that. What I'm indicating is we can't pass it on all three readings tonight sochlt that's fine. Now, ms. Cole, what I'm going to do is I'm going to read this into the record, and I'm going to then ask the following people -- let me ask real quick. Mr. Jones, are you here?

>> that's me.

>>Mayor Watson: I'm sorry. There you go. Mr. Watts is not speaking, but signed up for. Sharon Johnson, are you here.

>> Yes.

>>Mayor Watson: you don't need to speak if we do this, do you? thank you. Leonard atkinson. You don't need to speak if we do this, do you?

>> well -- okay.

>>Mayor Watson: good. Thank you. Barbara hatcher, you don't need to speak if we do this --.

>> I'd like to speak if I could. I've driven in from out of town.

>>Mayor Watson: okay. Why don't we let you talk. Would you please set the clock for three minutes for ms. Hatcher.

>> I just want to thank you for letting me come. I've waited a long time and I feel like I need to say this. This property was bought 20 years ago by my dad. It was to be I guess supplemental for my mother's social security. She's 83 and in the audience tonight. This was a lively little street, ivy trail. It was removed when we put in ben white and we've all enjoyed the ben white, but in the process it destroyed the use of our property. It has been vacant for nine months and our next-door neighbor has been vacant for one year. I've got to make taxes and insurance and all those things that you're familiar with and have no income. And so I really do need the property rezoned in a way that would be equitable. Even the construction of the highway damaged the inside of the house. We received no compensation, I had no opportunity to protest. And I don't want to destroy family dwellings any more than you do, but this is the only eight family dwellings on all of ben white from the airport to all the way through capital of Texas highway. And this has become a financial albatross for my mother and for me. And I would like to be able to market the property to be rid of it and I know you're sense sieve to that. It would be I think more valuable as commercial and I think there would be greater tax revenue to you and I would like to be free of the property. Thank you.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you. I take it that you're not in agreement with the proposed agreement?

>> I am very concerned that it's limiting, sir, but it is certainly a first step. I am between dan's hamburger, auto zone. My next-door neighbor is vacant, I'm vacant and then there's target. We are directly in front of the hi-rise whchlt that airport goes in, I cannot get a quality of renter. I'm right on the freeway. Nobody even wants to put their dog in my backyard. And that's the truth.

>>Mayor Watson: I understand.

>>Slusher: Mayor --.

>> Excuse me, Mayor Mr. Atkinson does want to speak.

>>Slusher: I would still like to ask the applicant a question. Ma'am, can I ask you a question? I would like the neighborhood to respond to this at some point too. I'm fairly familiar with this area and that these are the only residential left along ben white and obviously it's changed considerably.

>> Yes, sir.

>>Slusher: did you talk with the neighborhood at all -- and maybe this is something you have already been through and I'm not aware of, but did you talk at all about maybe making the ones on ben white commercial and keeping the other lot -- the lots on fort view residential?

>> that may have been mentioned. The concern is parking, is having enough parking when you put in some things and there's no way to drive behind the house to park because there's not enough space between that and the next-door neighbor. So I think it would be to our advantage to have access to parking, which is why we want the fort view area.

>>Slusher: okay. Thank you. I understand what you're saying.

>>Mayor Watson: Mr. Atkinson, if you would like to speak now.

>>Slusher: do you want to talk about -- answer that briefly?

>>Mayor Watson: ms. Cole.

>>Slusher: how you feel about that particular scenario.

>> Not positively, not favorably. We -- I do want to reiterate that we really just could have elected to come to Council straight from planning commission and just sought absolutely no commercial, no change in zoning, period, and that we did initiate, you know, with the other applicants -- with the applicants to try to strike a compromise that did take into account better their interest. It's not what they totally want. We totally don't want it to change from sf 3 either, but we're willing to do that. From terms of the commercial, I think one of the issues that you would have is that the lots are so shallow that you're going to have a problem with -- we live with businesses at the end of the block already. We deal with those on a day-to-day basis. To have further intrusion of businesses right into this area, you're talking about a deadened block only about 17 homes on this block. You have too much more commercial coming in there and it's definitely going to affect the stability, the quietness and the viability I think of a very fragile neighborhood relatively affordable homes. I think that to tell you the truth, there would have been other people that would have spoken tonight and certainly had this been more of an issue and had it not been represented to us that there would be in agreement, we would have had other neighbors present as well. So I'm a bit thrown off guard.

>>Slusher: and believe me, I understand. You're making some good points there. I'm trying to understand more of the negotiations that went on, the talks that went on before it got to here and also understand that you had the Planning Commission recommendation for denial and entered into negotiations. I personally appreciate that because I think it will come to a better solution because I don't think keeping the ones along ben white as single family I don't think is viable.

>> When ben white was upgraded, it destabilized that area. When ben white, the upgrade of ben white was a good thing, but it definitely had an adverse effect and unfortunately for the people that had frontage property now on ben white, you know, that was without compensation to them by the state. We do feel for them and are trying to help in some way, but not at the expense of really ruining the neighborhood, which I think commercial would definitely do. One of the other things I'll mention since this is being opened up now, I didn't plan to go into this tonight, but in terms of the commercial, this is the end of the block, we're even concerned about the effect of traffic with the neighborhood office that we've compromised to because what happens is -- I don't know how well you know that area, but when people get frustrated about waiting at the light at fort view and manchaca and they turn into cut through and go over to ben white, they go back -- between dan's and car quest, so anything that's over there, even though the City said prohibited access and even though we've included that here as well, we know that we're still probably looking at additional traffic on to the street. So there are a lot of reasons besides noise and other types of things that I could go into, but I won't.

>>Slusher: I am pretty familiar with this area. How do they put through?

>> it would be like if you were headed southbound and on manchaca southbound and you came to fort view.

>>Slusher: they cut over there and go through the parking lot of the auto parts?

>> right. Because the auto parts has vehicular access from fort view side and the ben white site. It's been that way for a long time. So they can dut kut through that. So you have dan's patrons, dan's employees or people who want to get over to ben white and then you have cars parked along the side. That was one of the reasons that we were restrictive about the hours and I don't see that changing at least at this point is we're not sure if we have additional parking on to the street such that it will be more narrow to even navigate down through there, with sometimes with the florist business and the rental business and the car quest is kind of a challenge anyway.

>>Mayor Watson: Councilmember Lewis, you have a question.

>>Lewis: I have a question.

>>Mayor Watson: hang on. Could we let may atkinson speak?

>>Lewis: all right.

>> I originally wasn't going to get up and speak because from my understanding with the realtor, we met with him a week ago on a sunday, I believe. The other person that got up and spoke was there, other parties that were concerned about this was there. I personally called Johnnie jay who owns two pieces of property after the City -- after the Planning Commission had already voted, definitely no change at all. I called Johnnie gee myself and I said I understand where you're coming from. I understand you want to sell the property on ben white and I understand why and I feel for you. We are willing to let the four lots go neighborhood office. Then I didn't hear anything else back from him and the next thing I heard was from the realtor. The realtor said let's set up a meeting and discuss this. When we met at his office and everyone that signed the petition was there, it was discussed, he said whatever agreement, whatever y'all come up with, I'm fine with. Whatever y'all can work out, I'm fine with. And then that was the last thing we heard. We gave him the information. The end of this last week he said he would get with the people that owned the property and the only thing that we have heard is that everything is okay, everything is fine and then he comes up here and blind sides us with this --.

>>Mayor Watson: I'm not sure you've been blindsided. I think they're just putting on record what their concerns are, but they've said they're in agreement on this and what I anticipate is getting ready to happen is that the Council is -- I'm going to read this into the record and the Council is going to pass the ordinance on first reading with instructions to staff that if items are not proper for an ordinance that staff ooms prepare the documents necessary for restrictive covenants on the property and bring those forward and what I hear them saying is that's what's going on occur. One of the things is that they obviously understand and appreciate is that with a valid petition they need a super majority of the Council in order to get any change in zoning and they would find themselves with nothing. And I think they understand and appreciate that situation. So I don't think you're being blindsided. I think they want to make sure that their point is also understood.

>>Slusher: Mayor, could I add to that a little bit? that I think the Mayor is right about your not being blindsided. That the owner just wanted to get on the record. And I think what we face here is just a difficult case because of the expansion of the highway and the way the state compensation laws are or aren't and that it's reached a compromise that's not ideal for anyone involved and through no fault really of anyone involved. And ms. Hatcher, she just wanted to get her statement on the record.

>> I understand that, but before we came here tonight, I talked to the realtor and everything was a go just as is.

>>Mayor Watson: it is now.

>>Slusher: I don't think she tried to change anything, though.

>> No, I waited four and a half hours and I want todd have my say.

>>Mayor Watson: four and a half hours for three minutes.

>> I won't say anything else. I appreciate it.

>>Mayor Watson: I think it's happening just that way. Michelle shriber.

>>Lewis: I just want to ask --.

>>Mayor Watson: Councilmember Lewis, just let me get through the speakers and I promise you will be the first person I turn to. Councilmember Lewis, it's all yours. [Laughter]. No, it's Councilmember Lewis's turn. What are you doing?

>>Lewis: wait a minute. --.

>>Mayor Watson: we're going to vote your zoning down just because you did that. Let Councilmember Lewis talk.

>>Lewis: where will the access to the property --.

>> Directly from ben white.

>>Lewis: so it's going to be set back so there's no access --.

>> No access to fort view road.

>>Lewis: you won't be able to get through there.

>> No vehicular traffic --.

>>Lewis: that's all the questions ied.

>>Mayor Watson: let me read this into the record and I'm going to ask if fo a motion. File number c 14-98-78, just so you know what kind of goes through my mind from time to time, I was leaned over like that and I looked at the monitor and realized that's one balanced man. [Laughter]. -- Bald man. [Laughter]. I'm going to stand up and read this. File number c 14-98-78, the requested rezoning of the above noted properties from current sf 3, family resident zoning to cf commercial services was and strongly opposed by owners of adjacent nearby properties as indicated by the file petition valid at 28%. The Planning Commission voted to recommend that the request be denied and also did not endorse the staff recommended zoning of lr/co neighborhood commercial overlay. The proposed alternative rezoning, the above noted properties to no, neighborhood office is not being opposed provided that the following restrictions, in addition to other site development regulations are approved by city Council as conditions of the zoning and are included in the restrictive covenant and/or conditional overlay for the subject tract. One, -- hey, folks. Zoning is subject tract limited to no, neighborhood office. Two, prohibited access to subject tract via fort view road. Three, construction of a six-foot privacy fence along northwest and east sides of the subject tract facing fort view road and alongside adjacent properties. Four, creation of a vegetative barrier alongside constructed fence. Five, required 15 foot set back for fence from fort view road, six, require 25 foot set back for my buildings from fort view road and adjacent properties. Seven, restricted location of any parking lot accommodations to these two lots of subject tract, lots nine and 14. Eight, restricted location of any trash receptacles to southeast side of subject tract, lot 14. Nine, restricted hours of operation, Monday through friday, eight a.m. To six p.m.. I'll entertain a motion to approve that ordinance on first reading with the restrictions mentioned and instructions to staff that the ordinance be drafted and the appropriate documents to place -- the restrictions by restrictive covenant if necessary.

>>Slusher: Mayor, I would move approval.

>>Mayor Watson: Councilmember Slusher moves approval, seconded by the Mayor pro tem. Any questions in?

>>Slusher: very quickly, I wanted to thank the neighborhood representatives for being cooperative with the applicants and staying with the applicants, because with the Planning Commission recommendation to deny and the valid petition that I think you realize that you would have been up against a tough fight here and I think that -- I think that it's an unfortunate situation for everyone involved and this is about the best solution that could be devised.

>> Exactly --.

>>Mayor Watson: if you would come forward.

>> I don't want this property turning into an eyesore or to attract very negative things in the neighborhood and I think they need to recognize that as well.

>>Mayor Watson: but you're in agreement with this?

>> I am indeed, but I just had to have my say, sir.

>>Mayor Watson: I'm all for it.

>> I would like to again tell the neighbors that we appreciate it and I'm not trying to blind site anybody, just the time that I realized that the Council is going to need to make these ordinances and covenants into -- and I know that there's a process that that's going to have to go through and that's, you know, where we're coming from. We had an agreement and that's what the agreement that you're presented. And we appreciate your time.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you and we appreciate all sides the way you've handled this. There being no further discussion -- Mayor pro tem?

>>Goodman: one quick one. When we decided to widen ben white and a lot of other roads, a lot of people got hurt and I'm glad that we're ainl to give you something back for the value that you had. And I hope this is the last piece of property we see that we have to deal with that got blindsided by txdot.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you. There being no further discussion, all those in favor say aye. Opposed say no. The motion carries on item no. 61. Council, what I would recommend we do is we take 30 minutes and we go to item number 58 and then we come back to item no. 79. For those who are here on item no. 58, I appreciate your patience, but I'm also going to really appreciate you if you will help us finish item 58 in 30 minutes. Let us all have that goal.

>>Garcia: Mayor, we may be able to finish in less time than that.

>>Mayor Watson: I'm certainly not requiring that as a minimum time frame. [Laughter].

>>Garcia: because I think there's been an agreement worked out.

>>Mayor Watson: then I will recognize Councilmember Garcia.

>>Garcia: I'm going to ask Councilmember Slusher to read the agreement into the record.

>>Slusher:.

>>Mayor Watson: all right, Councilmember Slusher.

>>Garcia: I mean Councilmember Spelman, I'm sorry.

>>Mayor Watson: I understand the confusion.

>>Spelman: we're often miss spaen.

>>Mayor Watson: Councilmember Spelman.

>>Garcia: both tall and blond.

>>Spelman: our versions may differ slightly. I would recommend that we pass the resolution before us with the following amendment, that is on page 3 at the top where it says be it further resolved that it read as follows: City Council strike supports and directs the City Manager to consider owe, back in the current text, increasing the city's contribution to the employee retirement system --.

>>Mayor Watson: Councilmember Spelman, I hate to interrupt you, but please tell me where you're at.

>>Spelman: the top of page 3.

>>Mayor Watson: it is further resolved, colon. It should read as follows. The City Council direct the City Manager to consider increasing the City's contribution to the employees retirement system; -- I may have had the wrong one in front of me. I'm not sure which is the most current version. The only one I've got in my packup.

>>Mayor Watson: hang on. All right. Try me again.

>>Spelman: third time is a charm. Be it further resolved. The City Council directs the City Manager to increase the city's contribution to the employees retirement system; and then strike by one pers but such industries shall not be affected before. So we're leaving it open-ended.

>>Mayor Watson: tell me what you're striking again.

>>Spelman: specifically strike the word supports in that first line.

>>Mayor Watson: directs the City Manager to consider.

>>Spelman: and strike everything after system in the second line and the entire third line and replace that with semi colon and.

>>Mayor Watson: to consider increasing the City's contribution to the employees retirement system; and be it further resolved City Council acknowledges and appreciates the support of state of Texas and et cetera, et cetera.

>>Spelman: exactly. Player Mayor Councilmember Garcia?

>>Garcia: can you read that again.

>>Spelman: fourth time is a charge. The City Council directs the City Manager to consider increasing the City's contribution to the employees retirement system.

>>Mayor Watson: sirx and. That's a motion -- motion is made by suspect. Is there a second? seconded by Councilmember Garcia.

>>Garcia: I'll make a friendly amendment. The City Manager does not make that decision. The Council does for budgetary, so what you're saying is make recommendation.

>>Spelman: consider a recommendation to increase. How about that?

>>Garcia: right. The second thing, Mayor, is I would like for the pension officer and the chairman of the board to come to a work session and talk to us about the condition of that fund. I don't remember when we have had a report from that board to us. And to bring whatever information they have -- actually, the reports, financial statements, whatever else.

>>Mayor Watson: Mayor good. Now it reads -- and Councilmember Spelman, I take it you consider that a friendly amendment. Be it further resolved. It directs the City Manager to consider a recommendation to increase the contribution to the employees retirement system, semi colon and. And now, let me just ask, we've got several people signed up to speak, but I know that they are smart folks and they've been watching what's happening here and there's probably nobody that really needs to. Kathy harrington?

>> I'd like to express migrate tud and appreciation.

>>Mayor Watson: Lewis ward? richard mallet? delia hernandez? bill crawford, carol guthrie, madeline peer sal. Tom mediciners. And I've never known him not to talk. [Laughter].

>>Garcia: it's a new day, man.

>>Mayor Watson: randy benwa. Tony maldonado. Alta okay he will tree. I knees zarate elizabeth gonzales. Thank you all --.

>>Lewis: Mayor, can I take a few minutes time?

>> I want to let them know that tomorrow we start at 7:45.

>>Goodman: Mayor, I feel it incumbent upon them watching tv knowing that we're going to do this sometime but the knot knowing what we're doing now, but doing it to say the first part of that resolution was to support the statute which will enable us, no matter where the increase comes from, to go ahead with that. And the second part was about the possibility of increasing the City's contribution and so we will be looking at the poebt of that, but we can also go hand in hand to the legislature for the enabling language. And I thank you all for coming to consensus, although I must mention we do fairly regularly send over reports and information, maybe not face to face, and we should do that, but especially in the past couple of years the board has been very good about some bad things, but communicating to you what was happening with us.

>>Mayor Watson: good comment. Is there any further discussion? hearing none, all those in favor say aye. Opposed say no. The motion carries. [Applause]. That takes care of -- scared me to death. [Laughter].

>>Goodman: and Mayor, could I acknowledge the board members and citizens and advocates who have been waiting almost eight hours to clap?

>> did you take vacation time to do this?

>>Mayor Watson: all right. Hang on, guys. Everybody voting on what we want to do next? [laughter]. You're moving like a mad man.

>>Lewis: Mayor, could we do no. 35? I have a question I need to ask staff. I'll recognize Councilmember Lewis.

>>Lewis: thank you. Is someone still here from Public Works or from streets?

>>Mayor Watson: is there someone here from public works? yeah. And moving pretty quickly, I might say. Councilmember Lewis?

>>Lewis: I have a question, Mr. Riek. On no. 35, Reading the backup, it seems like it was a real neat process of doing the speed limit, and my question is why is it that in -- I went through a thing on another street trying to get the speed limit changed and the people was telling me that we had to do a study, we had to -- you know, and all this. What is the -- what is the significance? because on this, it just -- you know, I don't know. It's Texas procedures for establishing speed zones october '97. Now, did it take that long from last october to get to this point?

>> no. Councilmembers, peter riek, what the request for Council action is referring to as far as procedures for establishing speed zones is this document from the Texas department of transportation dated october 1997. These are the guidelines that we follow in order to establish speed limits on Austin streets.

>>Lewis: and the reason I'm questioning it now is because it's hard to bring it up and get it answered so that people will understand. I know we're building a number of schools in the -- within the City limits. Now, is it a requirement in there that we make a study of streets that we can set the speed limit in school zones, especially elementary schools, by ordinance?

>> no. We follow the same process in determining the appropriate and the correct speed limit for all locations, including school zones. And in all instances we use the manual that I just showed and use the process that is outlined in that manual. And for your information, we only have three schools in Austin where the speed limit is 30 miles an hour in front of the school. The reason for that is they are located on recognize where the speed limit itself is 45 miles an hour. And as we explained in the letter, the differential between the posted speed limit and the school zone limit can be no more than 15 miles per hour. So that is what determines the 30 miles rather than a 20 mile an hour speed limit.

>>Lewis: well, that gets back to the other question. Who determines what the posted speed limit is other than the people that's driving on the street? if we get out and looked at 183, people drive at 70 miles an hour, so you're telling me we can only go down to 55?

>> we use 85 percent tile as the determining factor and if that were, for instance, let's say, 62.5 miles, we would usually go with 60 miles rather than rounding it up. We tiply would round it down. But again, this is the procedure outlined in this manual that is used in order to establish those speed limits.

>>Lewis: yeah. Well, so that would have to be changed by the legislature?

>> the legislature has basically put the department of transportation in charge of developing guidelines. The law says that whatever the state department of transportation comes up with is what ought to be used.

>> It's the regulatory process outlined in txdot.

>>Lewis: but I'm saying we're going to build some elementary schools, we're constantly building elementary schools in the City, and some of them are on main arteries. And to have a 30 or 35 mile an hour speed zone in front of an elementary school I don't think is acceptable by the parents. Children that's attending the school. So I'm trying to figure out what we need to do before it becomes a problem to be able to reduce the speed in school zones to a safe speed.

>> Well, I think -- okay. Lewis that's what I'm --.

>> And I think -- is there a specific school?

>>.

>>Lewis: yeah. We just opened, what is it -- which one over on the northeast side?

>> barbara jordan elementary school.

>>Lewis: we just opened the other one.

>> Is it 30 miles an hour in front of barbara jordan.

>> It is at 45. However, there is no -- there are no -- the school district lines are at loyola. There are really no children on the other side of loyola that need to cross to get to the school.

>>Lewis: but that street is at 45 is an unsafe street to drive on. But maybe once we get it fixed and we passed the bonds, it may make a difference. But we built one north of st. John's, the school that we just built north of st. John's.

>> Ruther ford lane?

>>Lewis: yeah. The ber nis heart school?

>> I believe that is 20 miles an hour.

>>Lewis: and we're going to build another elementary school. And I'm just trying to head off the problem of -- so that we can get it to a safe speed. Okay. I recommend approval.

>>Mayor Watson: motion is made to approve item no. 35. Is there a second? seconded by Councilmember Garcia. Is there any discussion? hearing none, all those in favor say aye. Oppose said no. The motion carries with the Mayor pro tem off indict as. Here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to go to items 37 through 40 because I believe we can complete those before 9:30 9:30. Maybe even more rapidly than that. And I'll recognize Councilmember Garcia.

>>Garcia: thank you, Mayor. I had difficulty with the language in the posting and I didn't read the changes and corrections until I got here. They were not in my office until late on thursday. But peter or somebody, who is handling 37?

>> 37, 38 and 39 are peter, mit tid well and toby.

>> And Austin and me --.

>>Garcia: 37, I don't think what the fiscal note is on 37.

>> Mitch, go ahead.

>> I'm not sure I have a copy of the fiscal note in front of me.

>>Garcia: I couldn't find it in my backup.

>> The way we have structured the agreement at this time, we would not make a reimbursement before october 1 of '99, so the funding would come out of the '99-2000 budget utility. Fwar gar about how much.

>> 225,200 On reimbursements, plus 3,000 and some change on capital recovery fee waivers.

>>Garcia: I understand. That's the fiscal note, 225 --.

>> 225,200.

>>Garcia: is all this consistent with the original plan that we drew up for incentives with this particular project?

>> it's consistent with the resolution that Council passed on august 13th.

>>Garcia: what I would like to do is I would like for you guys to quantify that resolution and then tell us as we go through and approve all this, you know, contracts, I mean, ordinances and resolutions, to figure out how much we're allocating and to see where we are on the incentive package. We really have owe unless I do the accounting myself, I really have no way of knowing where you are on that.

>>Mayor Watson: okay.

>>Garcia: on 38, once we've read the correction easy into the record, I understood what you all were doing. And on 39, they're going to do that, so we're approving vacanting and the contract for sale for bowie and then they're going to do 278,250 on infrastructure improvements. Who owns that property?

>> let me try and respond to that. What we're doing is we're vacanting both sides of bowie street and we are giving them and vacating aerial space above bowie street, the value of those vacations is 278,$250. We can receive that value in goods and services and the goods and services that we are going to receive for that value are Shoal creek channel improvements, pedestrian improvements and parkland improvements along Shoal creek between west fifth and west sixth. You know the area across from huts?

>>Garcia: them, not us.

>> They're going to do them.

>>Garcia: under our guidelines of --.

>> That's exactly right. Their proposals have to meet our approval.

>>Garcia: okay. Let me see 40. And 40 is part of the in17 sieve package?

>> that's correct.

>>Garcia: okay. I move approval of 37 through 40, Mayor.

>>Mayor Watson: motion has been made by Councilmember Garcia to approve items 37 through 40. Is there a second? seconded by Councilmember Spelman. Is there any discussion. Hearing none, all those in favor say aye. All those opposed say no. The motion carries with the Mayor pro tem off the dias. Councilmember Garcia?

>>Garcia: I would like when you send us a schedule on the original resolution that we put all this items that we have, 37 through 40 and what impact it has on the original --.

>> How this compares with what the -- how it compares, how does it tally.

>>Garcia: how it affects the original resolution.

>> We'll do that.

>>Garcia: thank you.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you. Is craig carter here?

>> yes.

>>Mayor Watson: okay. Ms. Bear?

>> she is not here.

>>Mayor Watson: amy kirsten? is she outside did you say? [inaudible]. David sideman chuck kroft? trek english? I'm not calling you up yet. I'm trying to figure out what I've got. Here's what let's do. Let's go back to item no. 79 And until 10:00 o'clock, at which point we will recess and we will go to item no. 52. [Inaudible].

>>Mayor Watson: the problem is all those people I just called out, they signed up to speak. When items get pulled, it brings people down here. So I just want to -- so let's go back to item no. 79. What we'll do is we'll go until 10:00 o'clock, at which point we will go back to item no. 52.

>>Lewis: I'll be leaving the die as.

>>Mayor Watson: okay. Let's not be rude, folks. Audra Mills? just so you will know. We're at speaker 49 of 137, so I'll make my same comments I made before. Audra Mills? she signed up for. Ben, do you need to speak or just be shown up in --. [Inaudible].

>>Mayor Watson: okay. Willie houston? he is signed up against. Thank you. Robin harvan? ma'am, is this who you donated time to. You will have up to six minutes if you need it.

>> I have a couple of other people who have donated time.

>>Mayor Watson: okay. Who would that be?

>> dennis giddings, no. 121?

>>Mayor Watson: is Mr. Giddings here.

>> He's outside.

>>Mayor Watson: he needs to be here in order to donate time.

>> Go get him. He's outside. And willie alexander. Where's willie?

>>Mayor Watson: do you know what number Mr. Alexander was?

>> I don't know willie's number.

>>Mayor Watson: well, for right now you will have up to six minutes and if they come in, then we will give you the additional six minutes.

>> Okay. Thank you. Good evening. My name is robin harvan and I'm here for two really important reasons. No. Is, I live in the neighborhood. I live at 1008 glen oaks court. A couple of my neighbors have been up here, people I know in the neighborhood. I am in support of up to me relocating here. One of the reasons is for two hats. The other part of, I have spent the last 21 years of my life in my professional career working with criminal justice system and chemical dependency fields because I absolutely believe that people can change. And what I would like to say to you tonight, Councilmembers, is that this issue is much larger than up to me. The up to me question is part of a -- the criminal justice treatment initiative here in Texas, which is the largest treatment initiative in the criminal justice system in this country. Texas has been looking and leading the country in a number of ways, but in this particular one in terms of saying that the number one growth industry, which is prison right now, doesn't have to be like that if with look at over 80% of the people that we are incarcerating there are there because of drug and alcohol related issues and if we are going to break the cycle, we have to treat people for their addictions. The up to me issue speaks to the most critical part of the initiative. There have been many studies to indicate that it is better to do a quality program upon them leaving prison than it is to do a quality program in the prison and do not do a program in the community. This link, this bridge is the critical piece of the success. I had the opportunity to work all over this country with many, many states who have also implementing their criminal justice treatment initiatives. Most of those states cannot 57 get the funding for the community based piece. We're so privileged and fortunate in Texas to have this funding. But we have a responsibility to the state of Texas, not just to the citizens of Austin, not just to my community. I respect my neighbors coming out, especially the ones who are against it, because I do not want to live in a neighborhood where people do not care about what happens in their neighborhood. I was doing a training in houston, Texas three weeks ago in a transitional treatment center such as up to me in fifth ward, Texas, where when they had their public hearing that was required, not one citizen showed up. Now, that's why I relocated from houston 15 years ago, because my guess is there's not a neighborhood in Austin, Texas where not one neighbor would come out because we have a higher quality of life, so we need to understand that this law that was passed in '97 that says any neighborhood where a program like this is coming in, if there are people who are concerned about it, the City Council has to hear that. This is a test case on that. You need to understand that this is a test case because all over the country is the whole syndrome of nimby, not in my backyard. It makes since. Our fears are played upon everyday by the media, by the politicians, about we need more jails, we need more prisons, but the reality is that those are unsubstantiated fears. The reality is Texas recruits aggressively across this United States to take people's prisoners all over the united states and bring them here and inkars rate them in Texas because it's big business, but you and I know everyday at home they keep selling us on the idea that we need more prison beds. That is not true. It's part of the hype. Part of the reason why this legislature was set up is to give communities voices. This is the third hearing. There have been two other hearings on this issue. The first one was in the neighborhood. Up to me didn't even know I lived in this neighborhood. I found out because they were going door to door and brought a flyer to my house. I work at this initiative on the statewide level and on a national level, but I did not know this program was coming to my neighborhood until they were doing what they're required to do, going door to door, brought a flyer to my home. They're also required to publish it in the newspaper two wieks in a row, three weeks, and they did all those requirements, twice. So it's not that they did not come in in advance and notify. They had a neighborhood meeting before the public hearing. They did not have to do that. They wanted the neighbors to come to the facility and try forget to know who is coming in their neighborhood. They have taken the steps. This program has been around six years. I believe these types of hearings and this law is meant to say give the neighborhood an opportunity to investigate who is coming in your neighborhood. If they have not been operating properly, let's expose that. If my neighbors were saying those kind of things, I would be right in there saying that this organization should be allowed to come in here, but this is not a new organization. They've been operating for six years. They have not had problems. They have support letters from the school around them, the businesses around them, the neighbors around them. These are unsubstantiated fears. I understand them, I respect them. I have compassion for them. But you were elected to make the hard decision, not make decisions based on our fears. They're legitimate, but they're not substantiated. These programs are safer in the prisons, they're safer in the community. I personally have developed one of these community-based programs in the sweet hill neighborhood association. The neighbors came out against us, tried to shut us down, but you know what, the same neighbors that worked hardest to try to keep us from opening were the same neighbors that in less than 18 months when we almost got our funding cut came and wrote letters and protested and said we want you here. We want you here because you're good neighbors because we teach conservative values. We have them -- they have it be accountable, they have to take responsibility and they have to understand there is no free lunch here. You made a mistake. You have to pay. But part of that is you giving back -- excuse me.

>>Mayor Watson: I'm just trying to get the record straight. You have more time. Is Mr. Alexander here?

>> you can have my time. My name is reginald hawkins.

>> Help yourself, darlg.

>> Okay. The reality is we teach very conservative valgs here, more conservative than you and I probably teach in our homes. We do not baby them. These treatment programs that they have gone through in the prisons for nine to 12 months are no piece of cake. It's easier to do your time in general population than to do your time in these treatment programs because you have to program five in the morning until 10:00 o'clock at night. You have to have people in your face holding you accountable, making you look at yourself. The hardest thing each of us have to do is look at ourself, not the way we want to be, the way we really are. There is not a picnic. If they, if they stuck to the place where they're coming up to me, which is a transitional treatment center, not a primary treatment center. They have gone through primary treatment. This is support versus treatment. This is what up to me. It's a bridge. This is a place for 90 days that they're mandated to come and yeah, they want to go home and get out to work and go home, but there are issues they have to deal with related to being incourse rated to repair panned getting families back together, to getting a birth certificate, driver's license and all those things that's going to make them work in this new environment if we want them to stay productive, tax paying citizens. So you can't just send them there. They need a bridge. This is what this is happening. But if we're not responsible as a community and as a Council, we're going to have the same situation in Austin as they have in san antonio Texas, which has a large number of inmates who cannot go back to their communities because san antonio organizations have done what Austin neighbors have started to do, my neighborhood, I'm proud of them on one hand, but on the other hand, we're shooting ourselves in the foot because I don't want you to think that everybody who is here who is against it lives in our immediate neighborhood. That's not true. They have gone to other neighborhoods, got other neighborhood associations, get people to sign up for them. The people that are here, a lot of them live in my neighborhood, but most of them don't. Just like most of people who are supporting them don't live here. So let's not have that misconception, because we need to understand if we begin this critical thing by saying we're going to vote not in my neighborhood because people's fears, which are legitimate, but unsubstantiated, we're going to have a situation where we will not have centers like this in Austin. And let me tell you what happens. When people in san antonio come out of the pramds, they have to go to Austin, houston, all over. They get a job, their families cannot participant in the family reintegration program because it's too far. They get a job, get established. They're supposed to establish themselves, get a job, find an apartment, all those kind of things. If they do that here and go back to their family, they have to start back over if they don't have the centers located where they live. I understand their fears, but we cannot give in to your fears. You were not elected to give into our owe motions and fears. Sometimes my fears may get in there, but you were elected to make the hard decisions based on the facts. And my neighbors have -- who I respect, have not presented to you facts why up to me should not be able to conduct its business. Let me tell you the most important reason. I've worked in this field and I've lived in this neighborhood and all I have had to see is the problem. People in open air drug markets, crack houses. I drive down the street everyday and see them. But you know what, I don't et get to see the solution. East Austin deserves to see the solution. [Applause]. We deserve to see that what we think is going to happen is not going to happen because people can change. Because most of these fears come from the media and from their frustration on having to go through their family members up and down drug problems. That makes sense if you've gone through that with your loved one. That you love them but you know they go up and down. But that's the knot the same situation. That's apples and oranges. It's apple and oranges of what we're talking about. This is a transitional treatment program. These people have gone through treatment, there's probation, parole supervision. There's a monitor, there's strict things and do you know what the most powerful thing is. It's like at the million man March. They control each other. They hold each other accountable. That's why gangs are powerful because peer pressure is powerful. What this uses is positive peer pressure. They hold each other accountable because they want to change and they know if they don't look at themselves in a real way, that will not happen. What we need you to do is to understand and respect and show compassion and show empathy for the neighborhood, but you need to look at the facts. And if the neighborhood has not presented evidence that says that this program, which I know if allowed to come in here will be a good neighbor, will be a part of giving back to this neighborhood in many different kinds of way which will be just like in sweet hill, neighbors who were against it said to us, do you know what, I feel safer with this program here. I feel safer with these guys here because they now are defining themselves and standing up for something right rather than allowing other things and other situations and circumstances to to define them in a negative way. This is what we teach and are bringing in the neighborhood. We need that just like we need acc and entertainment center and all those things that I and my other neighbors have worked hard to bring. We need to sigh the solution because one of the reasons why it's so hard to treat people in the community is because our neighborhoods don't think treatment works because all we see is the failure for treatment. The people who fail, they come back to our neighborhoods quick and tell us treatment doesn't work. Treatment is brain washing. Treatment is the white people who don't know what their talking about. Treatment is this. They use drugs in the treatment center. All we hear is the negative. We don't see that treatment does work because it does. [Buzzer]. And we need you to make the hard decision and bring this program in because we need a solution in our community and we see it everyday. [Applause]. [One moment, please]

>> yes, thank you. I am tim mosquito flowers, I have a business in East Austin, 2614 webberville road. I welcome the program. I also am a resident of the community. I live at 2013 hamilton. I'm in full support, I -- I know a lot about the therapeutic community, I have seen it work, I have seen individuals contribute back into the community. As a business owner, I can help those individuals make that transition by offering them work and jobs (audience: all right!

>> I know it's a lot of obstacles, but I think if we as a caution tee support those individuals, that are reintegrating back into society, back into the community, that -- that we can contribute substantially. And I support this program. Thank you. [Applause]

>>Mayor Watson: thank you, Mr. Flowers. Gore jet reed. -- Georgette reed. Please come forward. Ms. Reed.

>> Okay. Thank you very much for allowing me to speak today. Mayor and Councilmembers, I live 10 blocks from the facility to be and I am saying that because I am really in strong support for this community. I work five blocks from this new facility that I am hoping will exist. I am in full support of this community coming into the neighborhood. A lot of people here, I am not hearing them focus on the transitional part of this chemical dependency program. Transition as robin said is a bridge from one place to another. And I would like to support these men in making a conscious decision to stay clean, to stay sober, and to be productive members of today's society. I think the location is ideal. It offers education, it offers health benefits that many of them are lacking because of their history. I am in total support of -- of the facility being in place. I would like to see my vote, I am a voter. I would like to see my vote count. I put you in office. You didn't come here by your own will. The community put you in office and you do as robin said have a responsibility to us to cater to the needs and truth. There are a lot of people over here, they don't live in this community. I walk to work every day, I work door to door, I am a recollectional therapist -- I used to even go into lala's. I work in the community, I worked as an investigator for the state department of protective services. So I have been in the homes. I know the people in the community. And I want this program here. We need it to grow, to be a solid community. If anybody in this room has never ever sinned, then cast the first stone.

>> All right!

>> cast the first stone if you have never ever sinned before. [Applause]

>> said rick mohammed. Cedrick. Is carlos robinson here. Do you wish to speak or be shown in favor.

>> He wishes to donate his time.

>>Mayor Watson: to Mr. Santa ana?

>> okay. Mr. Mohammed. I am cedrick mohammed representing the nation of islam and Lewis farrakhan, as well as "up to me". I want to make a few points quickly first the mosque of the nation of islam is located in 78702. Less than a mile away from the lala center and as well as a minister I have the awesome task of going door to door in that neighborhood. And let me tell you, quite frankly, for those who are against it, I don't know where you stay, but this ain't green acres. This isn't -- you don't stay next door to ward cleaver or anybody like that. This is East Austin. The bottom line is there are crack houses right in your neighborhood where you think everything is nantd peaceful. -- Innocent and peaceful. There are drug dealers right in that neighborhood where you think everything is free of drugs. There is a problem in east Austin. There is a problem in west Austin, I hear one lady say that our neighborhood is -- is equivalent to west Austin. They sell crack in west Austin, too. So wherever you think that you are going in the United States, there's a drug problem. No matter where you put this center, there's still going to be a drug problem. But we would like to see this center in our community so that we can end some of the drug abuse that is going on in our community. Let us know sugar coat this thing and make it look like we ain't got no problems in our neighborhood, like everything is okay, no roaches, no rats, right. Let us be realistic. We have got problems in our neighborhood. We are not talking about men who have raped children, not child molesters coming into this neighborhood. We are talking about men who we say in this country we will give a second chance, but are we liars and lip professor's or will we stand up for what we say we believe in and give these men another chance to show that they can make it in this society. So I hope that City Council you will do the right thing and prove to us that america is a good place to stay. Thank you. [Applause]

>>Mayor Watson: thank you, minister. Mr. Santa ana you have up to six minutes if you need it.

>> Thank you City Council and members. I was born and raised in east Austin. I went through all of the wars that we went through as adolescents and I can tell you, the wars are still going on. And I know because I have seen it. I moved out -- a young man out of booker t because he was on crack. His two children I called the police on him. That was my own son. You see I know what to do now. The right thing to do, I will do it every single time I see somebody doing the wrong thing, selling crack in your neighborhood, your neighborhood, anybody's neighborhood because I know what's right now. But it took a program like "up to me" to each me because you just condition learn by yourself in East Austin because nobody is willing to teach you! [applause] I was 44 years old when I learned this. Where were you East Austin when I needed you when I was growing up? where were you, where were the programs that were supposed to be there? there were none. I would like to see something like this go in there because it's positive. I can teach people something. I go tomorrow I am scheduled to go to comstock, a federal -- where people come out of the federal penitentiary, I talk to them, say do not go out this way, because if you do you are going to end up right back where you started from. You don't want that. East Austin don't have problems like -- programs like that. My role model before was my uncles, brother, all went to the penitentiary because they said it was the right thing to do. Nobody told me different. Nobody! until somebody had to show me where my ears where because I couldn't see them. What I was doing wrong. A lot of people that I see now and I have talked to people outside, and I know them, they said, well, I am scared. What are you scared of? are you scared of change? are you scared of somebody coming and telling you, no, you can't sell your crack no more? are you scared of that? because that's what we are going to tell you. That's what we are going to tell you. We will call the police on you. If we see you selling crack to your children or anybody's children, we will call the police on you. [Applause] we are not afraid of crack dealers. We are not afraid of dope dealers, anything, we are not afraid of them because we know what to do now. That's the right thing to do. You know, I was born and raised there, we went through all of that. And I wish now that I had -- somebody had told me, you know, son that's the wrong thing to do, but, no, it was all right because everybody else was doing it.

>> That's right.

>> Everybody else was doing it because that was the only thing. And the police were just as at fault as anybody else. They said, as long as it stays this that -- in that area, it's all right.

>> That's right!

>> guess what? it's still in that area.

>> You are right, sir.

>> It's still in that area.

>> What are people doing about concerned citizens. Do they call the police? what do they do? we don't want to get involved. I tell you one thing, we will get involved. I will get involved personally. Because I am not affair of you crack dealers, I am not afraid of nobody that's not doing the right thing because I know what the right thing is. God is on my side. That's all that I need. I tell you one thing, I need the City Council and the Mayor to look at this, because Austin needs -- East Austin needs a place where people can see the end result. Not the beginning. But the end result. I own my own business, I have a six figure income, beautiful wife, beautiful kids, bought a new home, everything in there. My wife, we go to meetings, we talk. We tell people what to do. You don't have to do it exactly the way I do it. Went to prison I don't know how many times. You don't have to do that. You can do it the right way. You don't have to suffer. You can do it the right way. But I don't hear East Austin crying out and telling everybody, you know, that's knots the way to do it, you can't sell crack. They would rather leave them alone. I will not leave them alone.

>> That's right, that's right!

>> they talk about a dr c. Why didn't acc eradicate the infestation that was there before we moved in there? why?!! because it was all right. But it's not all right. I am afraid for my children. My grandchildren. I had to take my two grandchildren out of booker t.. I went over there with the police. You know what they told me. They said you know what, everything here, everybody knows what's going on. Well then do something about it. We don't because we are afraid. Well, I am not afraid. I went to a judge, they tell me we know the problems there, the police know the problems there, but we are going to keep it localized that way it will not infest the whole area. My god, my friends, my amigos, the whole country is infested. What are we going to do about it? do you want to keep the same people on the streets? our kids, our children, mothers, grandfather, everything, what we are -- what we were capable of doing years before or do we want to show them what the end result is? last month, when was it, the floods, me and my wife and kids and people that helped us, people that worked there, people came out of prison got our truckloaded and filled it up, took it down to del rio. Nobody had to tell us to do that, we did it because we love to do it. We help people around the streets. Nobody has to tell us to do that. We love to do it. We have changed. But East Austin, I see, I drive through there every day, there's not a major change since I was a kid. Maybe a few buildings up there here and there, but nothing else. You know, what are we going to do about it? we talk about it, we want to help out and everything, but are we doing everything that we have to do? no. We want positive role models. Of course we've been to prison, but that was -- that product that East Austin produced. I am from East Austin. [Buzzer sounding] that was a product that East Austin produced. I am the end now, a very responsible, loving, caring man. Thank you [applause]

>>Mayor Watson: suzanne lorraine. Susan lorraine. She says don't want "up to me" in the neighborhood. John barkley. John barkley.

>> He had to leave.

>>Mayor Watson: he wrote against "up to me" in rosewood neighborhood. Jenny ranheil. Charles henry. Charles henry. He didn't sign up for or against, theresa gratin, do you wish to speak or be shown against. Shown against. Scottie poe.

>> [Inaudible].

>>Mayor Watson: I'm sorry.

>> He's on a tape. Some people that are in the neighborhood that didn't want to come, but wanted us to show that they supported it.

>>Mayor Watson: okay. I will hold Mr. Poe's card. Ricky hancock, do you wish to be shown in favor?

>> yes, sir. I wish to speak.

>>Mayor Watson: please come forward. Let me say again, we are happy to hear everybody that wants to speak, but we are at 62 of 137. And unless you feel like you have something that is very unique to bring to this, it may be that we have already heard what it is that you have to say as we try to make this decision. We are going to break in 10 minutes to go to another hearing and then we have another hearing after that. So in deference to your neighbors who also have matters of interest to them, I again ask you if you are just going to repeat, there's not a necessity to do that. Ms. Ranheil.

>> Good evening, I have heard several times this evening people talking about how this neighborhood group got together and passed out fliers and got other people involved that does not live in the neighborhood. Well, you have to remember the same people that you are asking for support are the same neal do not live in east Austin, came out to east Austin for all of our support. We helped them. They don't live on the east side, but that's the way you work together, by coming out, coming together. Another thing is that we in the neighborhood, friend and neighbors, we have not said anything about how this program does not work. I am sure it works. I know it works, but it doesn't have any business in that location. I believe in the lord, I have been praying for you people that you all will be able to find another location, you believe in the lord, you ask the lord for another location. That's what you do.

>>Mayor Watson: folks, it's getting late. People are tired, but -- we are not going to be rude to anybody no matter whether you agree or disagree with what they are saying.

>> The liquor stores. Yes, there's a lot of liquor stores on the east side. H.e.b. Has liquor stores, central market does. There's liquor stores almost every two or three blocks out there. But we are being told why don't you all take care of that? we are doing it. That's why it's so important for you to come out and support zoning changes. Those zonings have been in place since 1920. It's not my fault. But I am fighting to keep those liquor stores out. If there are so many liquor stores in the neighborhood, in the surrounding area, why would you want to put a temptation there would be there to go to these liquor stores. The Texas department of corrections, there's a reason why they have all of these facilities out in the boone docks. There's a reason for that. This program works, but why not try instead of fighting us, fight the system. They should be able to have something in place for them while they are still incarcerated. They don't have anything else to do. Train them there, give them the skills they need. Get them off of drugs then, when they come out, they are ready to come out, get a job, make themselves situated, become members of the community again. The same people that want to lease out lala land as it has been called, there was a neighborhood there. And now it's single families there. What they want to do is come in and make it commercial. Commercial zoning. Do you know what that means? more liquor stores. We don't need liquor stores. Somebody mentioned something about roaches and -- roaches and rats. Well, roaches and rats, you can't eliminate them. You can control them, though. But, you know, you can control them. We are not fighting you all to stay out.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you.

>> Thank you.

>>Mayor Watson: [applause]

>>Mayor Watson: tony olquagay. Okigweah.

>> [Inaudible]. Donating my time to mike garvy.

>>Mayor Watson: suzanne gordon. Susan gordon. Do you wish to speak? you will follow ricky mancocks.

>> All right. Honorable Mayor Watson, distinguished members of the Council and to the concerned citizens of Austin, my name is ricky hancocks, I am a resident of this neighborhood and I wanted to speak for the proposition to move "up to me" to this neighborhood. I really had it altogether and I wanted to say that I believe it's all been said and it may be a little redundant, but I was really surprised when I came here, I came here open minded and I wanted to be open to what I might hear as some facts being presented as to why this should not happen. I want to reiterate to this point I have not heard any facts as to why that this facility should not be moved to this neighborhood. Nothing has been said as to -- that has not been really the concern here is based on stigma, and based on stereotypes and based on the fears. I know that you have heard that before. But I believe that's real important that you understand that, that is where the citizens or residents of this neighborhood are coming from. The facts are as -- that it's "up to me" has a success behind them that carry ies on into -- that will be carried into the community. The facts of the matter are is that this is a minority owned business, it is a viable business, it is a very important business to our community and to our society and I really need to say that I really feel as though this is an issue for the City of Austin. The people, the residents, the clients of this facility, there's a need for these clients so that they can -- if they can come in and enter back into the community as has been stated. I need to slow down, I got really emotional because I was appalled at what I feel to be a lot of ignorance that's been thrown at the City Council that has to make this vote. This facility will in no way weaken -- will not weaken our neighborhood. I feel that this facility will bring in some -- will bring some some staff members, some experienced people in the drug and alcohol field, some experienced members dealings with the criminal element and when you bring those into the neighborhood, I would rather have people with experience to help us out in our neighborhood than to have the -- than to have people with no experience, I would rather have these people in here with the experience dealing with that, to be real honest with you, than -- I feel more comfortable with them than my police department. The roaches and rodents are the drug dealers and the drug dealers and theives and criminal elements that have been in this neighborhood that continue to be in this neighborhood, the City of Austin, I'm not placing blame [buzzer sounding] has shown there's been a failure on the part of the police department to protect this neighborhood.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you.

>> Thank you, Kirk. [Laughter].

>> Susan gordon.

>> Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for your time. I realize that it's late and everybody has had a hard day and a long day, everybody is tired, I am tired, too. So I will just be as short as I possibly can. I am in the medical field and I'm also an ordained minister. I spend a lot of countless hours out at "up to me". And I go there as a minister and as a friend to the guys that are in the facility. I have got to know the administrator, pat and cheryl and all of the counselors, I have been there morning, noon and night. I have watched things, how they work. It's very structured. I take the guys with me to church on sundays, I do some of the bible studies out there. We kind of get together and share things in the lord and we do things with our time and I have gotten to know and see a lot that goes on out there. I am not an employee, but sometimes you can learn things by keeping your mouth shut and observing sometimes. I have observed a lot of things out there that I would be and consider to be an employee of -- I would be proud to be an employee of "up to me". First of all, I know that I've been called in by several of the counselors to check with me, when I have my guys over at my home, at my church to check with me to verify that they have indeed been at my address. They do check up, they know I'm not going to lie. But to make a long story short, I do believe in what they are doing, I stand behind it 110%. I stand behind what they are doing and what they believe in, but most importantly, ladies and gentlemen, I stand behind my guys tonight. I really do. Because, you know, if you don't want them, and if the neighborhoods don't want them, and if their families don't want them then Jesus does. And I really not only care about them, I have seen them weep, and I have seen them cry and I have counseled them, I have seen their remorse, but more importantly, I have actually seen them change. Really, really change. And I would -- I just want to thank you for your attention. Like I said, I know that you are tired. I really appreciate you listening to what we all have to say. But if it's just for one person and I go in there and spend countless hours just to one person, then I will do it, I really. One more thing what I would like to say a lot of the issue has been said tonight about safety. Tonight when I left, I had one of the young men at my home tonight and I asked the men if he would walk my daughter to her job so that she could be safe. And I left him there and -- my daughter is the most precious thing to me. But I thank you for your time. Thank you. [Applause]

>>Mayor Watson: it's 10:00, we will recess this hearing and go to item no. 52, Keep in mind earlier there had been some discussion we would not be voting on. But because of the necessity of the timing under the law, there will need to be a vote on it. We are only at speaker number 69. Of 137.

>> [Inaudible].

>>Mayor Watson: I understand, but are you going to speak? yeah, okay. [Laughter]

>> we will call up item no. 52. Can Councilmember Lewis hear my voice? I will entertain a motion to allow the rules to be suspended of the City Council so we can go past 10:00. Motion made by Councilmember Slusher, is there a second? seconded by Councilmember Garcia. Is there any discussion? hearing none, all those in favor say aye., opposed say no.

>>Mayor Watson: I will vote no. The motion carries. Are you eating your second supper tonight. Calling up item no. 15. Loose oh.

>>Lewis: oh,. Thank you. I would -- item no. 52, It's -- after speaking to a number of people today, I am still a little unclear as to why we are studying three -- you know, why we are going to study three solid waste facilities when we only -- trying to get a contract with the two. So that's my first question. After my book came apart. If you could answer that for me, Mr. Roads, then I have one other question that I would like for you to answer.

>> Yes, sir. I am willie rhodes, director of solid waste services department. We brought this item to Council several weeks ago during some discussion mentioned we should look at other landfills in the area. Taking a look at this, if we have an issue with any other landfill that's we may want to contract if the ones we recommended for the waste management is not there, we have to start this process over again, then we would extend the length of time we will be without a contract for our garbage collection. So we looked at the issue and decided to tell you all of the lands nails we could possibly contract with. Therefore to make sure when we bring it back to the Council that you will have a report, an independent report of all three landfills that would give you whether those landfills are environmentally safe. We felt that this would be the best way to do it. Therefore you could entertain a motion at that time to execute a contract with one of those two landfills. Or two of those two landfills.

>>Lewis: my other question is during this study, exactly what are we looking for? is it a pass or fail situation?

>> I'm not sure if it's pass or fail, we need to find out what's there. Based on everything, the information we gained from communities out there at large says there's information on record that support that the waste management landfill has environmental problems. What we are asking this consultant to do is a paper study based for the information of tnrcc to analyze it for independent review and bring the report back to the solid waste advisory committee and to the Council to let let them know what the records at tnrcc show. We also are going to take information from the neighborhood association, meet with them to get all the records that they may have, information that they may have for them such as tapes, and reports that they may have concerning the landfills and have them take a look at that.

>>Lewis: well, you know, knowing what I know about the waste management landfill, it's about 9 acres out there. Where people have been unable to produce records to exactly what was dumped there. Is that going to be part of the records since we are doing a paper study? we are not going to know any more about that nine acres after we do the study than we know at the present time.

>> We would know everything that -- what is on file with the tnrcc and anything that the neighborhood would have. The state did not have anything for any ground water monitoring or anything of that nature, we feel that may be cost prohibitive for the City of Austin. We feel if the report again -- that the report by the consultants shows that there's an issue with the landfills, then we will turn that information over to tnrcc, they will then go out and take care of the ground water monitoring and testing of the landfill to determine what needs to be done there. We are -- the City of Austin is not the regulatory body for the landfill. It's the tnrcc, we will be working with them to provide them reports that we get, whether it's a good report or issues that need to be looked at. The other thing that we are going to ask for the consult toont do is after he has all of the information, to make recommendation for improvements, if there need to be additional or monitoring wells or anything out there because of lack of information. That will be there.

>>Lewis: I am still trying to figure out what -- since we are only dealing with waste management and bfi and tds, why we are going to study -- my question is why are we studying, what is it, longhorn?

>> bfi.

>> Bfi. And what is it going to prove that if we find something with bfi, or if bfi is the only one that we don't find anything in. What are we going to do then since their capacity is so small, I mean, what -- what benefit did we get by spending the money to study that?

>> the benefit we get, if there's something wrong with -- with tds and waste management, then we still have opportunity to contract with bfi. They propose only -- on the rfp we originally sent out, that's sill available to us. Therefore we will be able to at least to inform Council that we looked at these landfills, these are the environmental issues that there are, if any, then for the Council -- recommend to Council the contract with one of the -- with two of the landfills in the area or one of the landfills in the area.

>>Lewis: all right. It says negotiate -- thank you, Mr. Rhodes, that's all that I have. Mayor, do we have speakers on that item?

>>Mayor Watson: yes, we do.

>>Lewis: well, I will -- I will listen to the speakers before I make a motion.

>>Mayor Watson: let me just ask about that. If there's a motion to be made, it might eliminate the speed for speakers. -- The need for speakers.

>>Lewis: it may.

>>Mayor Watson: yeah. At 10:00 at night.

>>Lewis: my motion would be to authorize negotiation and exclude the execution until we find out exactly what we are negotiating and how much of a study we can do with -- with the amount of money that's allocated with the $50,000 because we don't know -- you know, the amount of paperwork that's going to have to be studied is not known from either one of the landfills. And some place we need to set our priorities as to which one we are going to study first, second and then third to -- to spend this type of money. So I would make a motion that we negotiate a contract and bring it back to Council for execution, so that we know exactly what we are paying for.

>>Mayor Watson: motion has been made to approve resolution authorizing negotiation, but not the final execution of professional services agreement with carter-burgess. There is a second?

>>Griffith: second.

>>Mayor Watson: seconded by Councilmember Griffith. We have some people that have signed up to speak. You have now heard the motion. So that will tell us -- that ought to be able to give you some indication of -- of how long you need to speak or whether you need to speak. Craig carter.

>> Yes, sir. I will just briefly -- Mr. Mayor, members of the Council, I am can carter-burgess. -- I am with carter-burgess. The reason that I am here this evening is to address any potential questions for the Council and also to lend the support of our team on this project. And address any questions about how we might address the project as a whole. In light of the time issue, that's all that I have to say.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you.

>>Slusher: I have a question. Are you confident that you can do an adequate study in the time provided?

>> not having seen the volume of records and paperwork on the three landfills, that's very difficult to say at this point. We can do our best effort to get through the volume of data in the time allotted in the 45 days. However, since I -- again I haven't seen all of the volume of data yet, we can give it our best effort, but without seeing it, it's just difficult to tell at this point how far it will get. I don't know how many reports there are. How many boxes, et cetera.

>>Slusher: okay, thank you.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you, sir. Therese bayier.

>> She is --.

>>Mayor Watson: that's right. You told me that already. She signed up for. Amy kir continue. -- Kisstin.

>> Good evening, I'm the new president of chimney hills north neighborhood association. I am the closest community to the landfill, about two days ago, Mayor, we delivered a videotape to your office to larry warshaw. This video was taken in october of the old county dump which is next to wmi also included footage of there. There's leeching from the county dump, this dump was closed and capped about 15 years ago at a cost of $4 million. It was -- excuse me, if it is still leaking now and the majority of the wmi site is constructed in the same manner, one can conclude that the wmi site, which is over 10 times larger, will possibly one day leak and cost far more to clean up. I want to thank you because if you are going to take further consideration to look into this, certainly the time that was allotted, 45 days to look at three landfills when only one harbors industrial waste is not enough time. Wmi has been in existence long enough that I have been told that their files, if put one on top of the other, would be taller than a man of 6 feet. If you would please consider -- yes, sir, it is very tall. If you would please consider when you negotiate this contract that if you are going to look at three landfills, start with wmi. The other two do not have industrial waste. I urge you, I live in this community, I need your help. This video that I am going to ask that you see, Mayor, as soon as you get a chance, shows exposed garbage on the wmi site, things such as metal pipes, plastics, clothing, other horrendous conditions that currently is there at the site. I was told by the gentleman in the community near mine that took the videotape that the smell was overwhelming. It will plainly show the reasons why all of the communities around the landfill such as mine are seriously concerned about wmi's ability to manage their landfill. Wmi's lack of concern for the environment is causing pollution and silt to flow into walnut creek and ultimately into the Colorado river. This is serious. I know we are sleepy tonight, you need to listen to me. This is very serious. My point is this: if you are going to -- again, if you are going to look at three landfills, you feel like you need to investigate all of them, spend the majority of your time looking at wmi. Their files are more extensive. It requires more time and we do have the proof to show that they are currently operating their landfill as they should be. I do want to thank you for taking the recommendation that was given to you by the solid waste advisory committee to investigate the site. I do thank you. However the study currently unless looked into lacks the teeth it needs to make the proper determination of that industrial waste. I urge you [buzzer sounding] to remember to please consider my neighborhood. Thank you.

>>Lewis: I have one question. Are you telling me that your video don't have smell with it?

>> no, I think technology is not quite to that point.

>>Lewis: okay. Yeah, you -- you were relieved of that Mayor.

>>Mayor Watson: I appreciate that. David sideman.

>> I am dave sideman from walnut place neighborhood association. I'm the one that took the videotape of the dump sites. I have a little correction, I put a check mark on the wrong side of the card there. I am against the dump. I am for the testing.

>>Mayor Watson: I got you.

>> I am not sure that $50,000 is enough to do a thorough test on the site. It's just going to be a paper trail. I would like to see a real test done, water samples, stuff like that. 10 Years ago I videotaped the old county dump and found leachate leaking into walnut creek, along with silt and all of that. $4 Million later, the -- the county spent $4 million on recapping the dump and supposedly doing a lot of work on it. It's probably 30 times as bad as it was 10 years ago. Back then I found two lechate pits coming out of it. Now there's at least 30, 35 out of it, seeping down into the creek. This is going into a tributary that runs between wmi and the county dump, which is going into walnut creek, which flows into the Colorado river. Walnut creek is the biggest watershed in Travis County, so there's a big concern there. Where this tributary comes into will walnut creek is behind l.b.j. High school right into a park. A greenbelt. So to speak. I don't think it's a good place for a greenbelt. It's already there. I observed a lot of silt coming off of wmi's dump. The record was -- what was that? the report that wmi gave to the City said that there was work on the way or work in progress building retaining walls and covering the west side of the dump with grass. And I filmed one blade of grass on there, about a foot up from the bottom of it. The rest of it is just baron. The rains washed that -- barren. Trenches three feet deep, washesing all of the silt down which glen flows into walnut creek. I hope do you have a chance to watch that videotape and pass it on to the other Councilmembers. [Buzzer sounding].

>> And I appreciate it. Thank you. Mayors thank you. Councilmember Garcia Mayor, not just the Councilmembers, but watershed protection department needs to look at it, go out there and investigate what's going on.

>>Mayor Watson: yeah. Chuck croft.

>> Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. I know that you are still flushed in the glow from what happened, the success of the bond approvals, by the citizens, but --.

>>Mayor Watson: seems like about a year ago now.

>> I know it probably does. [Laughter]. But the reason we are here and some of these people have stolen my thunder, so I am going to cut mine pretty short probably, but we really need to get back to something that is real. For instance, I'm not referring to a pipeline that might leak at it goes through Austin. I am not talking about a nuclear waste dump 600 miles away that may have some effect on the ecology of Austin. I am talking about something that's happening right now and has been for 10 years. And that's leachate escaping from the dump site. This exists and there have been tapes taken of this which the Mayor has a copy of. And others of you would like a copy, we can furnish that.

>>Mayor Watson: I will make sure it gets circulated, too.

>> Very good, thank you. Let me skip that, it's already been talked about. They talked about the paper trail, which is true. Tnrcc has got files and files on this thing, on happenings at the dump and as a matter of fact the neighborhood has some files, also on this. We hope that the people who are going to be involved in this contract are going to be able to get through all of this, because it's going to take more time. I am not saying I am guessing that it is going to take time, I am saying it is going to take more time than allocated and cost more money if they do a proper job. We know that leachate is escaping from the landfill. There's no question bit. We have got records of it. If someone said -- I will repeat it. This material is coming up through an asphalt road, bubbling up. Possibly because it's being pushed up by the gases that are there, which we -- we consider that it probably is coming from the methane gas underneath. We also know that 26 years ago there were 26,000 barrels, that's 1,100,000 gallons of toxic industrial waste was dumped at the site. How it happened was they were in 55 gallon barrels, they cut trenches, [buzzer sounding].

>>Mayor Watson: sir.

>> I will give him my time.

>>Mayor Watson: okay you have another three minutes.

>> Thank you. This material, the -- the landfill was trenched, the barrels were dumped in there, metal barrels, they have been there for 26 years, guess what happens to metal barrels that have been buried for 26 years. Have you ever dug up a bucket or can or barrel that's been buried for two years? they are not there. But the toxic waste is either there or on the way to the river. Or it's already been there. So ... We -- we feel very strongly about this. We appreciate your taking the steps to hire someone to study this. We don't feel that, as I said before, and others have said, there's enough time, we wish that hopefully that you would as Mr. Lewis suggested, ask for recommendations from this consultant as to some sort of testing on this. Because to date we have not heard much about testing and we don't know any other way to find out what we have got right now, not 10 years ago, or more, right now. The tape is going to show you the effluent I call it coming out of the asphalt road between the dumps. It will indicate various obvious violations of tnrcc policy. Such as exposed garbage and eroded channels, ineffective or no silt fences to prevent seepage in the tributaries of the creek. And also escaping methane gas into the atmosphere. Of course as -- as Mr. Lewis said again, he stealed some of my thunder, too, we weren't able to trap any of the odors in this tape but if you are driving down highway 290 parallel to the dump, some evening or afternoon after coming from manor downs or wherever you have been going that direction, roll your windows down, take a good whiff, you will know what we are talking about, particularly if the north wind is blowing a little bit, you will see. Consequently to all of this, the three neighborhoods involved, which are adjacent to this property, which happen to be walnut place, chimney hills and harris branch respectfully request that geo probing be included in the study ies stated in the rfq and/or later. As you know geo probing is taking tests through drilling processes and new laboratory tests to find out exactly what we have now. That the study, number two, be limited only to the Austin community landfill site [buzzer sounding] number 3 any infractions of the law by the landfill managing company or companies will be grounds to disqualify that company's lands fill from consideration for the City of Austin contract. Thank you.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you. Those are all of the people that have signed up to speak on item no. 526789 The motion has been made by Councilmember Lewis and seconded by Councilmember Griffith to approve a resolution authorizing negotiation of a professional services contract and it would come back to the Council once that has been negotiated and before execution so that we would know what the status of negotiations are, what we could do. Yes, ms. English?

>> I would like to [inaudible] nature the direction has been given to the City staff for that to occur. Is there any further discussion?

>>Slusher: Mr. Rhodes, can I ask you a couple of questions.

>> Yes, Councilmember.

>>Slusher: explain to me, you told a little bit of this to Councilmember Lewis, but tell me some more about it. We had -- it was going to be looking at one landfill and I understand, you know, we should look at all of them. Or at least the two that we are negotiating with. I agree with that. But -- it was for the same amount of money. Does that mean we are going to get half the -- half the scope of services? I mean for 50,000 -- it was originally supposed to be 50,000 to do one, wasn't it? now it's to do three?

>> no, we had not put a -- put a dollar amount when we first drafted this up. We took a look at it after we crafted the rfq for the services we required, we then took a look at the previous environmental studies that solid waste services had done on springdale park, zilker park, what the dollar amounts we incurred for those contracts. Because the testing was not involved in everything with that. We then put together what we thought was a -- an amount that would cover the contract for the study of all three landfills because it's really going to be a review of the records that's on file with tnrcc, bring them back as to what's there, what does it indicate. So it's not -- testing was not included in this, the recommendation for testing may be -- maybe required in that recommendations to come back to solid waste services and the Council, but right now we are not putting any testing in here.

>>Slusher: okay. Do you agree with the -- one of the neighbors said that the wmi because they have industrial waste should be the focus, do you agree with that?

>> well, I think to satisfy our concern that the City of Austin is trying to assign a long-term -- sign a long-term contract for 30 years, this issue has probably been brought up, mainly been focused on the waste management landfill. To leave any other neighborhoods that may have concerns with tds or bfi, we need to make sure that we study them at the same time frame, this is the reason we brought three landfills to you to study. Therefore, if waste management does not survive the environmental review, if tds does not survive environmental review or bfi does not, then we look -- take a look at an option what to do with the garbage. At this point in time, instead of having to go out a month after that. We will cover all of the landfills at one time.

>>Slusher: okay. Now -- I don't want you to say -- I am not trying to get you to stay anything about the state with this next question, but we are just basically reviewing documents of the tnrcc. Do they then not provide adequate analysis of those documents that they have on file?

>> based on the input from the neighborhood, that is the inference that has been put out there. We are going to have an independent review because the rules for having a landfill are there, there are set guidelines for operating a landfill. They will be able to take the guidelines as required by epa and tnrcc and then reduce it down to -- the landfill following the guidelines or the landfill within that permit parameters for operating the landfill.

>>Slusher: I appreciate that. It may not have been fair to ask you since the idea came from up here.

>> In essence what tnrcc or the health department before that, there are inspectings done, some of the issues they talked about slopes, there needs to be at least a 3 to 1 or 4 to 1, vegetation, when those things don't happen, the rules call for the state agency to write a letter to the operator to say: here's the rules, here's what's not being complied with the rules, this is the time frame in which you need to bring this landfill into compliance. Areas that you have finished out that have subsided, you need to bring in soil to fix that subsidence, those issues that were raised by the speakers would show up in a file by inspectors that have gone out and regularly inspectly not just this landfill but tds and bfi to give us some sense with their compliance with state regulations, I am assuming from that date, from that recommendation, there may be a recommendation, based on this kind of compliance record or this kind of data, we may need to do some additional testing that will require more than just -- from the files, but actually some true testing on the ground. And we would have to come back at that point and say we need additional money to do these things. We want to look at these two landfills. If one doesn't work, the other doesn't work, you have at least tested all of them so you can move on as quickly as you can to conclude our negotiations.

>>Slusher: so does this -- how badly, if at all, does it slow you down to have the negotiate and bring the contract back? can you just -- I am hoping that you will just put that on the agenda as soon as you negotiate it if this item passes.

>> Correct. However, based on the number of Council meetings between now and the end of the year, that --

>> I would strongly recommend that you allow us to execute that if you want to know the terms we will be able to provide a report to the Council, saying based on the 50,000, this is what we have been able to negotiate and execute with carter-burgess. If the Council at that point wants to tell me or willie, that's fine, get started, but we want to do another 25,000 for these kind of things, tell us, we will put that item on amend the contract and put the contract forward. There are only three Council meetings after this one. In order to get this thing moving I would strongly urge the Council to give us that authorization to execute this contract and provide your report to let you know what it is exactly we negotiated.

>>Slusher: Councilmember Griffith, I understand -- I think that I understand your concerns and bringing them back before the execution. But with that in mind, and fact that this is related to the airport, would you consider taking the solid waste advisory commission's recommendation to authorize and execute? because I do have some concern about with the only meeting every other week, then off the last three weeks of the year, this is related potentially to the new airport, would you consider to execute, also?

>>Griffith: actually, it was willie's --.

>>Mayor Watson: it was Councilmember Lewis made the motion, Councilmember Griffith seconded it. It would need to be a friendly amendment. Councilmember Lewis I will tell you as I ask this question, I will give a brief commentary, too. It strikes me what I hear from Council I think I share the basis of your motion. We are very concerned there's not sufficient funds to do the kind of review that we want to see. But if all we do is say negotiate it and then bring it back, I think what we end up coulding it biting off our nose to spite our face because we are not going to be able to even get that much done. So I would be more supportive as the City Manager suggested going forward with what we have got. Asking for reports either individually or by memo or otherwise about what it is that we are getting as a result of that so that we can give direction that we want more to occur, but we get started with what we can get done as soon as possible. Would you consider that a friendly amendment?

>>.

>>Lewis: looking at this matrix, it leads me to -- to a point that -- I noticed that I didn't have any explanations as to why between an option on -- an optional interview done between jd consultant, llc and carter-burgess, incorporated. We went through this same thing I think at our last Council meeting. It's, what, 9. --9.5 Difference in the total points. Would an option -- with an option of 25 point for interview. And I couldn't find anything in there -- in the backup to say why, what determined that an interview wasn't needed. So that's one of the reasons. When you look at these matrix, the selection, it leads me to wonder why wasn't it an interview. Who is it to say that burgess is that much better than jd consult snant you know, I don't know either one of them, I am looking at --

>> willie, I think when the Council gave us direction to do this, you wanted us to move relatively fast. We have a time clock ticking with respect to the landfill. We have been working on trying to secure a new site for now almost 18 months. We wanted to move as fast as we could to figure out what we thought the best dough was -- company was based on just the Written proposals. We think that we have a good company in terms of our recommend dating, we want to get started, negotiate, get this thing executed as fast as we can so that that work that's necessary can begin. Then we can identify if there's additional work that needs to get done. All toward the end of closing out the 812 landfill and securing a new place for where to take our garbage.

>>Lewis: well, I understand that City Manager, but, you know, this is not the first time that we haven't had an interview without any explanation as to why. If -- had we said in the beginning when we sent out the rfq that we would interview, you know, two days after we -- after we make a determination on the -- on the information, everybody would have been ready. You know? I mean, it's not like -- I don't know, when did you finish this? this is 10-8, received 10-8, here it is 11-5. So, you know, I mean, my question is why couldn't an interview have been done? I mean, if it's been almost a month since this was received. This is the type of things that bother goes me. Not so much as to who gets it, but the process, you know. And because the next time if we wind up doing an interview, people will say, well, you didn't do an interview the last time, why are you doing one now? you know? I just -- if it was an explanation as to why there wasn't an interview done, then I could understand it. But we can make that a -- a separate -- make it a substitute motion, but -- I just don't think that based on what I see here with the matrix, the selection process, that -- and without any explanation, I don't know why -- why we didn't have an interview. So --

>>.

>>Slusher: Mayor I would make that substitute motion.

>>Mayor Watson: motion made by Councilmember Slusher. Restate the nothing.

>>Slusher: that would be to -- I believe it's as stated on the agenda.

>>Mayor Watson: that's what I thought. I want to make sure. Approve a resolution authorizing negotiation and execution with the instruction, I take it, Councilmember Slusher, that there be as rapidly as possible reports back to Council regarding what that negotiation is getting for the $50,000 so that we will be in a position to give instruction to the City manager if we want additional activity and that may mean we need to come back with more money.

>>Slusher: that's well said Mayor.

>>Spelman: second.

>>Griffith: may I answer Councilmember Slusher's question. I have a schedule here it says execute the contract november 20th. If we took a look at it one more -- before it was finalized, we could do that on december the 3rd, so actually we are just talking about two weeks. And also I understand we can go month to month if we need to. I don't think we are going to over two weeks. But if we went month to month, we would have to -- there is some concern that -- and the solid waste advisory committee has concerns that the staff allow the consultant adequate time and resources to perform a thorough and complete analysis. And the concern of the committee is that checking the paperwork at tnrcc might not be adequate and that we may need to do some probing, core samples, field work, air samples as has been suggested and also the concern is that $50,000 may not be enough to know whether or not that's necessary. That's -- that's why I was wanting us to take a look at it. Before it was executed.

>>Slusher: I agree with a lot of that, but to me that two weeks is just too long to wait. I think the way it's been phrased now that if we are not happy with what's in there as to the completeness, then if it doesn't neat what we need, with the 50,000, then we are going to have to add on to that. So I would rather go ahead and get this rolling, see what we get for that. We are just not going to agree on that, I guess.

>>Goodman: do I understand the motion to say correctly that we are not authorizing at this moment any more money and we are not asking to expand the scope beyond documentation of tnrcc rules?

>> that is -- the way the proposal was done was for us to do that. It would allow carter-burgess in terms of their review, if they came back to us and said, "we don't have enough data, we need to do field testing," then that's a matter of us giving them a notice to proceed, amending this contract, giving them the dloors do that.

>> Mayor and Council, in the context of needing to know a whole lot more than we do now by January of 1999, it seems to me like it would be the better part of valor to authorize more than $50,000 at this time like up to x amount, and make known expectations for agents more sampling than paper work. -- For a little more sampling than paperwork. That's been one of the primary issues especially with waste management. If we are going to come back later, we are going to come into the same time crunch as we do with so many things where our own deadline is not going to give us the ability to ask for more and really get an adequate job done in that time frame. So I was hoping that we would allow staff to go ahead and negotiate and execute a contract, but give them leeway to go beyond the paperwork search.

>>Mayor Watson: let me -- I think there is consensus among the Council right now, just based on what's being said that we are not probably going to be satisfied with what is before us. But we are not prepared at night, at 10:40 at night to say how much more ought to be out there. Perhaps what we could do along those lines is say: go forward with negotiation and execution of what we got, and by the december 3rd meeting come back to us with some sort of proposal that gets us beyond this legal of discomfort. Be able to report to us on december 3rd what the negotiation brings us with -- and with a recommendation to get us beyond just a document type of search so then we can make a decision that is based upon some -- some facts about how much money might be as part of that contract. I don't feel comfortable right now just writing a blank check.

>>Goodman: I understand that. But coming back december the 3rd means that you have one month. I don't know that any engineering firm is going to be able to really get their gear in order and go out and get the kind of sampling, get it back to us, we say okay, then we do whatever landfill we are going to do all before January.

>>Mayor Watson: but -- I hear you. The difficulty is that then we don't know --

>> Councilmember, if I could just make a comment. One of our concerns as staff is if you put a very large out there, you are going to get a scope of services back from the consultant that's going to spend what you put out on the table. We don't necessarily know that it's going to take that much. In the negotiation process, they will come back with very specific project requirements or their estimates of number of hours on each task that they think is necessary to perform to give us a complete analysis of the landfill. And then their rates for those particular employees that are working on the project, we may at some point see that as inadequate, but it's kind of -- if you put $100,000 out on the table, it will become a self fulfilling prophesy, that's what it will wind up costing. $150,000, They will give you a scope to do that, too. Based on work that we have done with other landfill assessments, we feel that analysis of the paper trail, 50,000 ought to get us a pretty good analysis of the data, the ground water monitoring date that as -- data that's in tnrcc files, ground water data in oh other sources, drinking water we wills, -- water wells, permated facilities. They will be able to look at the designs of the ground water monitoring systems, give us recommendations as to whether those are accurate or adequate. That's the sort of thing that they would do. But I think what's been suggested, we really do need to get on with this work or it is going to start delaying.

>>Slusher: Mayor?

>>Mayor Watson: Councilmember Slusher?

>>Slusher: it's getting late. Hope I say this right, but I want to make sure that nothing that I have said or anyone else said is interpreted that we think, well, 50,000 is not really enough, we can't get what we want for that, it's an open invitation to make amendments to the contract. I think your comments are in that spirit. I don't think carter-burgess would take it like that, but I wanted to make that clear to everyone.

>>Mayor Watson: Councilmember Lewis and then Mayor pro tem.

>>Lewis: I don't know, I guess this would be directed to staff. I keep hearing January. What is the drop dead date about January?

>> we try to back into a date that we have to have the landfill closed when the airport opens much, which I believe is may time frame. We have to close it for 60 days prior to that time, so that backs you into March. If you get the data back from this report in January, give you and community and solid waste advisory commission enough time to get the results, come back with recommendations that they feel comfortable. 60 Daytime frame from January to February. Get into March, have to start going somewhere else, that's a pretty short period for it to get public input again on their opinion to be able to read and give us their opinion on what they think of the results of the report, solid waste advisory commission to have a hearing on that, deliberate themselves, give you at least a few weeks to -- the gist of the results of the report marks a recommendation. That 60 day window is what it really gives to you do that. That's not a whole lot of time in our estimation.

>>Lewis: don't we have a contract extension or contract agreement that -- to dispose of our solid wastes?

>> we could. It is possible to continue using the landfill as we are today, we could negotiate something with tds if we needed to, we would rather not be put in that posture.

>>Mayor Watson: Mayor pro tem, folks, let's see if we can wrap this up because of the time. Mayor pro tem did you have something you wanted to add?

>> the con fektd of my remarks have been perhaps from a layperson's unrealistic point of view. That 50,000 sounds like a whole lot to do a paper chase. For stuff that's on record at tnrcc, maybe that's because I end up doing research for free and I am not used to $50,000 price tags. But on the other facet of what landfill to choose, can we not then if we go ahead with this item tonight bring back for the november 19th meeting a recommendation for what kind of geo sampling and any other kind of field work that we think would be strategic and adequate to our needs as a Council item?

>> I don't think we have the information to give that you kind of recommendation. That's one of the things that I think the consultant will look at when they see what is out there already in the way of ground water monitoring systems and data, see if there are any gaps in the data, in the systems, then make recommendations to -- to say today we need geo probing without knowing exactly where we need to do that without some analysis of the designs of the landfills, we would really be kind of shooting in the dark in terms of knowing if any and how much is really necessary as well as there are concern let me and liability issues and when we start actually doing testing ourselves and us rather than the tnrcc holding ourselves out as to the adequacy of the landfill, there's some things we really need to consider before we cross that bridge.

>> We have absolutely no problem coming for the Council or authorizing an expenditure or coming to the Council and rat flying that to do the kind of things that we need to do to ensure that we have adequate information to determine whether any of these landfills are in compliance with state regulations and in fact are not environmental hazards.

>>Goodman: well --

>> so we can get rolling with this. If it's not by the 19th, if it's something that within a reasonable time frame where we may need additional authorization, you have our commitment we will do it. Because I understand the information that the community needs and the Council needs to say, this site is not just adequate, but it's environmentally safe and it's one that's in compliance with the state regulations, it isn't leeching, has a good methane gas environmental hazard system, we understand that. I want to make sure that we are not as a staff going to have people feel -- what we are going to have -- to have Mr. Carter-burgess do something and we as a start won't bring that forward. We will bring it forward. We will in fact authorize more money and come back and ask for ratification if that's what we need to do to expedite this.

>>Goodman: I think that you are going to look at tnrcc records and see that everybody is virtually in compliance. That's not the whole picture. Part of what the neighborhoods have been worried about all along is the old stuff. What is already there and whether in fact they can be assured that what exists is not -- is not exacerbated by ours or anybody else's additional loads in the landfill. So that's a part of our responsibility and wmi has that condition and we need to check it out somehow.

>>Griffith: I had a quick question for our consultant. Can you tell what's in that landfill by reading the paper trail?

>> I do expect to see record of what has gone into the landfill.

>>Griffith: if you know if you don't do the probes and if you don't go do the field work and the sniff tests and the things that haven't been discussed in terms of really getting in there and seeing what's there? can you tell that with -- by just looking at pieces of paper?

>> like I said there, will be records what was has gone into the landfill. Whether those are complete or not, we won't know for sure whether it answers all of the questions about what could potentially be in there, I don't really know.

>> So you are planning no field work at this time?

>> not as part of this scope. We haven't been instructed to consider any field work. No. We may come back with a recommendation at the end of our work as to address the gaps and to fill in the gaps in the data. That's part of our scope.

>>Griffith: will that recommendation be based on nothing but the review of the tnrcc paperwork?

>> yeah, tnrcc records and other available -- for other sources, neighborhoods and anybody else.

>>Griffith: but essentially, the data will be paper reports and no on the ground --

>> that's the way I understand it, yeah.

>>Mayor Watson: the motion, substitute motion is to approve a resolution authorizing negotiation and execution of professional services contract with instructions to the City stoof come back as soon as possible -- City staff to come back as soon as possible to help the Council decide whether or not more needs to be done and how much that would be so that we can do that as rapidly as possible. Is there any further discussion?

>>Slusher: that would also include Councilmember Garcia's instructions to the watershed protection department and that the consultants take any date that that comes from that.

>>Mayor Watson: the motion has been made. We are voting on the substitute motion. Any further discussion? hearing none, all those in favor say aye. Opposed say no. Motion carries on a vote of one, 2, 3, 4, to two. Oh. Have you signed a card? a vote of 5 to 2, the 2 being Councilmember Griffith and Councilmember Lewis voting no. That closes item no. 52. Let me check here real quick, folks. That will take us back to item no. 79.

>>Lewis: Mayor, I will be leave the dias.

>>Mayor Watson: all right. I am going to -- it is 5 until 11:00. We are going back to item no. 79. I am going to go out on a limb here. I am going to say that I believe that now that we have heard 68 speakers or it hasn't been a full 68, I know, but we have heard a substantial number of speakers, that we probably are to a point -- please let me at least finish -- we probably are to a point that it's going to be a rare case indeed where we hear something that is totally unique and that will be the kind of thing that will cause any of us to go, whoa, but for that I was going to vote the other direction. So I really am asking you, if nothing else, just because of the lateness of the hour, we have another -- we have one other hearing scheduled. So I ask you just as a courtesy, if nothing else, if it's not just the kind of thing that you think can't go without saying here tonight, please just let me indicate whether you are for or against. With that, let me start calling out some names. We will just see how effective that little speech was. [Laughter]. I don't have a whole lot of faith. Carlos hernandez. Do you wish to speak?

>> very briefly.

>>Mayor Watson: okay. You know, I am glad that I don't have to make a living doing this. Because I sure am not very effective at it.

>> Mayor Watson, I do have something unique to say. That is of all of the neighbors that can be close to the existing location of it's up to me, my back yard is 10 feet away from the existing facility. And I just want you all to make a decision on facts and the facts are we have had no crime in our neighborhood, no senior citizens abducted, no children molested. And the truth is, there are 25 -- they are 25 feet away from me, I have never heard any kind of disturbance in the four years that I have lived there.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you very much. Stephen vigorito. [Applause] he signed up in favor. Andy gentry. Andy gentry. Do you wish to be shown in favor?

>> yeah. But I would like to give my time to [inaudible].

>>Mayor Watson: okay. It's going to be interesting is the tape out in the hallway? where is the tape? okay. At what point are we going to see the tape?

>> [inaudible].

>> When the number gets called.

>>Mayor Watson: so the tape signed up? [laughter]. All right.

>> It doesn't have a name on it.

>>Mayor Watson: it's the one without a name on it. It had an address. The tape has an address but no name I noticed on the car. Okay. Well, at some point I guess we will see that. Ets -- essy barnes. She's in favor. Reverend erin scott.

>> I would like to give my time to the playing of the tape.

>>Mayor Watson: okay. Dpaen thomas, Jr. Danny thomas, Jr. Signed up in favor. Diane ridly? Diane ridly.

>> Give my time to [inaudible].

>>Mayor Watson: claudia davis.

>> Mayor, I don't have anything unique to say, I would like to give my time to Dr. Nathaniel thomas.

>> Daniel thomas, senior.

>> Mayor, I have already spoken.

>>Mayor Watson: thanks for being honest about it. [Laughter]. Dr. Nathan yell thomas, if you will please come forward, you will have up to nine minutes if you need to take it. Flo -- solomon or salmon. Flowin salmon signed up for. Orange jefferson? do you wish to speak or just be shown in favor?

>> I wish to speak.

>>Mayor Watson: please make your way to the podium. [One moment please] because their lives are at stake. I pastor a church located in the heart of East Austin and we're a church that is over 400 strong and constantly touch the lives of young men which many of them you see here at our side every day. I've listened to everything that has been said tonight with serious intensity because this goes to the heart and the core of my very existence. I've served in clinical therapy for over eight years, served vocationally as a pastor of a church and now I'm full time pastoring and I have three churches in one location that god has blessed us with. I do want to stand in agreeing of one thing, this community, this neighborhood has said that's against this program. It is up to us. Up I don't think the us can be minimize to do webberville road. The constitution of the united states says we the people of the United States of america. And when you get down to the us, you've got to really define who us is because I heard Gus savage ask a question to one of the people that was standing here, Gus Garcia, I'm sorry, ask a question to one of the people that stood here tonight do you live in that neighborhood. But in reality there is not one Councilmember that is sitting up there tonight that would judge on this issue that lives in that neighborhood. It is difficult for you to understand the hurt or the help that is needed in east Austin unless you are a resider. And so for him to ask that question tonight posed a lot of irony tonight and in a sense it enraged me because as I sit here and -- hear and listen to the things said in this room tonight as a community leader I'm outraged, there was such contradiction tonight. Yes, we think these programs are healthy, yes, we know it's up to me has a good track record, yes, we believe they are doing works, but no, not in our neighborhood. I want to tell you tonight it is up to us. It's up to us who reside in East Austin because the drugs in East Austin ain't a webberville road problem. The drugs in East Austin, the gangbangers in East Austin ain't a webberville road problem. The crime in East Austin is not a webberville road problem. So there are three things I want to drop on you tonight because I really feel that it ain't nothing I'm going to say tonight that's going to sway you one way or the other because the political game has already been played. And many of you came in this room tonight with your own minds made up, but I want to appeal to you not as politicians but as people tonight. I want to appeal to your conscience and your soul and not to your office tonight. Because there are three things I just want to leave with you. One is we need to be seriously concerned, and our concern needs to recognize first the irony that we heard tonight. We saw a lady that stood her and said she didn't want the program there but she saw little kids in her neighborhood in the webberville road area passing marijuana joints to one another. That's exactly why we need this program in this neighborhood. [Applause]. She spoke of ajudd indicated individuals returning to what she tip fid as the good life. Baby, I'm sorry, it ain't nothing good about fatherless #s children who have failed to the degradation of drugs, it ain't nothing good about homes being destroyed, it ain't nothing good about the abuse that ises ska lagt or the drug problem or the aids virus that is going on in the colored community, it ain't nothing good going on about that. This is not the good life. What is really happening is that -- is that I've seen members irony, I've seen members tonight wearing it's up to us badge who stood as the last hearing and said their daughters got saved and delivered through programs just like this and now they are standing here tonight and sitting new here tonight talking about we don't want it in our neighborhood. Drug epidemics have affected every last individual in this room, either directly or indirectly. [Applause]. And it's time for us to do something about it. Listen, we've got to be concerned not only about the irony but the influence that's going on. This is not about votes but about victims. This is about victims of families whose lives are -- underline the word destroyed in your mind. I'm not talking about who lives have been turned up side down because the stock market crashed, I'm talking about lives being destroyed and taken for advantage by something that we've got to really find a viable solution about. This ain't about politics, this is about people tonight. And not only the irony of the influence but the insult. I'm insulted tonight that I could be doing something else, but I'm sitting up in here tonight until 10:00 at night listening and waiting for a Council who don't live in east Austin to decide the fate of a program that is designed for rehabilitation. I'm insulted because this Council doesn't convene when drug houses open up. This Council doesn't convene when gangbangers take over our car lots and street corners and our children's lives. This Council doesn't convene to do anything about that. I'm not criticizing you, but I'm criticizing us who have the audacity to come up and say we don't need it had our neighborhood. I have to deal in the young men's lives in the jails, I have to go when parents have to bury them and say ashes to ashes and dust to dust over young lives snuffed out by the degradation of drugs. It is up to us to make a difference. We've got to arrive at a new commitment. We've got to understand the problem, that drugs are really in the neighborhood. Rehabilitation is not. Genuine rehabilitation. Crack cocaine is in east Austin, but clinical track records are not. This woman has a track record of saving and helping over 1,000 men rehabilitate their lives. Check it out for yourselves selves. We must not only understand the problem but we've got to start undergirding the problem. It's not the drug problem in Austin or the United States but they are on combat against it. We've got to get underneath the possibility. One life saved by this program is worth more than 100 that is lost. We have got to get serious not only concerned and committed, but I need to close by telling you we've got to get a conviction. It's got to start being more than about your political office or your vote, it's got to start being by the fact that you are people with a heart, and we've got to stop -- if we can stand here and do nothing and nothing will happen. That reminds me, there was some men in the bible and I don't want to preach because I don't know if you have been born again and maybe some of you have, but the reality is these men had a disease and they were caught outside of the City and said either we can die doing nothing or we can die doing something. Council, drugs ain't going nowhere so either we're going to die doing nothing or I implore you tonight let's stand up, make your vote and let's die doing something. [Applause].

>>Mayor Watson: Mr. Jefferson.

>> Good evening, Council. I'm owen jefferson and I'm a practicing intern right now for one of the large treatment facilities here. I'm also a single parent. Two kids. And a member of the black poet society and that has nothing to do with this, but one of the things that does have something to do with this I'm also a former client of "up to me". That's got a lot to do with it. I'm also a three time loser. I'm also a prospective home buyer on the east side of town. That's what I'm fixing to do with my life. I like the damages they have on out there the opposition because it's "up to me". It's up to us as people who have been convicted of crimes to do something different with our lives. See, and I owe that to this place. That's why when this place calls me to do anything, when any addict anywhere needs any kind of help from anybody, I want to be the person to be there for that person. That's why I chose to go into that profession. You know, people been telling me for years man, you ought to be a counselor. I'm talking about in prison people telling me you ought to be a counselor. Something was talking to me. You know what, I got these two kids I'm raising by myself and I want to tell you something, if me with this three time felon record, I'll be on paper till 2010 and that's not bragging, that's just facts. What I want you to know is that as I move into this community that -- that is drawing into -- as they say us people into this place, what I would like to say is that if there is anything going on in the neighborhood which I want to become a prospective home buyer in I want you to know I'll be the first to call the police. I haven't had any incidents with any laws here's, I haven't raped any children, snatched any purses. I'm become a pretty productive citizen except for the right to being able to vote, I think I'm doing pretty good. You know what I'm saying? and the thing is that I'm really proud of myself, people tell me I'm a success. I don't know. Bills keep coming in and it's just happening. You know what I'm saying? but I know the day I take responsibility. And that's the thing this program has taught me and the people at that place that they call it, those people taught me some responsibility, they gave me a commitment when they asked me to do something for a program that will develop a man into a real man that can be proud of standing in his own shoes, I will do it. I'll go to the ends of the earth for them. I'll go to the ends of the earth for the opposition if they are my neighbors. And I want you to know just like I would call the police on somebody breaking in my house, I'm the kind of person that will call the law if somebody was breaking in your house. So who would you want for a neighbor? you know what I'm saying? somebody with a vengence for crime, because crime stole my life. I don't think nobody can really just be real critical about nothing if you ain't ever smoked no crack, ain't never shot no dope. I did all that for 27 years. And now today I consider myself a retired dope fiend. Thank you. [Applause].

>>Mayor Watson: vera castillo. She signed up representing the organization "up to me" but didn't indicate for or against but I'm souping for. Jean mays. Jean mays. Do you wish to speak, sir? please come forward. Birdie jones. Verdia jones signed up against. Stella wells. She does not wish to speak but signed up against. Enrikue zambioni. Do you wish to speak?

>> yes, sir.

>>Mayor Watson: please come forward. Mr. Mays.

>> Yes, sir. I've been living in the community for 13 years. I bought a home in the neighborhood in '85 and glenn oaks and I support the treatment concept, but I don't think it should be put in a residential community. And the -- based on the reasons that a residential community is not the proper setting for -- I think to treat cute drug addiction problems. I think that it would be -- if it was outside of the community maybe in -- somewhere in the country like bastrop or something where they could isolate the individuals and concentrate on their rehabilitation process, it would be better. But I also -- I think that the neighborhood has worked real hard in trying to develop the overall quality of life of the people in the community. Now they've got a entertainment center that you all worked very hard to bring that is coming about. And you -- the new Austin community college is there for the people that is trying to continue their education. And better theirselves. And I think a facility like this wouldn't be really compatible to that type environment. And I heard them say earlier that what would be the critical issues of putting a facility like that in a residential neighborhood, you know, what the issues could be. And I was sitting here thinking that the people, no matter what you say that's coming out of a penal institution or a rehabilitation facility, has a mind set that has been programmed based upon the environment in which those people have lived, it's got to have effect. You don't rehabilitate a mind set in 90 days. And I think that that type of -- even though they are trying to, you know, the goal is to rehabilitate them that kind of mind set is not -- you know, totally evolved to perfection in that short a period of time in which to be just mainstreamed productive citizens of a community. And I think that that it would also have a bad effect on the overall quality of life of the community based upon that thing. And furthermore, the -- I was thinking also that the people that's coming in that facility they are coming from everywhere from all over Texas and you don't know exactly. [Buzzer sounds]. Could somebody yield some time?

>>Mayor Watson: thank you, sir.

>> Anybody yield some time?

>>Mayor Watson: thank you. Cheryl hiel burs. I'm sorry, ma'am, what did you say?

>> I would like to donate my time.

>>Mayor Watson: to what?

>> to cheryl. I would liblg to donate my time.

>>Mayor Watson: too whom? charl. And what is your name?

>> tony [inaudible].

>>Mayor Watson: I'll try to find your card. Mr. Zambioni.

>> I'm also a client at "up to me", I was a client, I just got out three weeks ago. And if it wasn't for "up to me" I wouldn't be standing here. For the bible studies they have and everything that goes around. There are people that had love and what "up to me" taught me was to -- showed me love. And I came from a rough neighborhood and if it wasn't for "up to me", you know to help the clients there to get together and have a positive mind to make it in the real world, you know, it would be a better way, have a better life for them. As for me, if it wasn't for my -- my counselor has been behind me 100%, I wouldn't be here right now. And I believe that there is -- that we can make it, you know. But these churches here that I have here that live around that area, we so much a bad influence to this community, these -- I don't think they would be right behind us, but I do agree that "up to me" does a lot of help. That's all I've got. [Applause].

>>Mayor Watson: thank you, sir. Ms. Burs you've had three minutes donated is if you need a full six minutes you have it.

>> Thank you. I want to say first of all thank you for this opportunity for allowing us to come down here and give you some factual information this evening. It's been a long evening and I want to first thank the neighborhood for bringing up some of my own issues. I'm the unit director at "up to me". I'm also an addict in recovery. I've been in recovery for six and a half years. And as I was in the neighborhood talking to the neighbors, they were bringing up my own issues by we were talking about fears and we was talking about some of the things that had happened to them in their own lives and what occurred to me was the things I had taken my own family through and the fears that they had when I finally checked into a treatment facility and got some help for myself and they really didn't want me to come back home. So I understood that and I want to say thank you neighbors for bringing up my issues for me to look at one more time. You know, the shame and the guilt from calling us -- saying we're trash and that we're dumping trash into the East Austin area. I want to also thank the City Council for allowing me one more time to experience the political aspect of this business, because this isn't my first time being here. You know, I was here a little over a year ago in support of another transitional treatment facility called push up foundation. And some of the issues that came up that deterred them from getting the spot that they needed to help people that were the same sort of people that we're talking about, one of the issues was that they want a -- they weren't an established business at the time and they were going up against this notorius car wash on manor road and loyola. You know, so I sat there and I thought-"I asked myself what could be a reason this time that they are not allowing us to put our facility since they talked about all of the positive things that were going -- we're going up against and the fact that we're a five and a half year established business. So what could be the reason that we don't get the spot this time? you know, and since we're talking about the positive things in the neighborhood, the acc building, great, let's talk about that. I want to talk about how "up to me" can help in the community by sending our guys -- see, our guys want to go to college. They want to go to college. You know, they talked about some really strong issues. When you are talking about jerry at tricks and pediatrics you are talking about some heavy stuff, young people or elderly people, you get people's attention. But no one ever talked about this missing generation on the east side. So that's what I want to talk about, the college age kids on the east side. You know, so why do we build an East Austin campus if the East Austin adults that are college age are in the crack houses? or so busy in the bars or so busy can't get their head up off the pillow in the morning from having a hangover, when are they going to college? when are the kids going to be able to enjoy the community center they are so proud it? and it's needed, don't get me wrong. If you have been to a local mall on saturday you know it's needed. How is it going to benefit the East Austin kids when most of them are at home watching little brother because mom is at work because dad is in the penitentiary. So how did you build it for really, the kids on the south side or the north side or the west side? because it's not going to be very beneficial to our children if we don't bridge that gap. I want to tell you how we plan to join hands with the community to build -- to bridge that gap. See, we didn't talk about a lot -- a lot about our community based program. See, we also have a community based program. None of the opposition want us to bring that up. Because that is why we are moving to webberville. We have a community based program which will allow people from the webberville community to come right in off the streets. We referred them to a detox, to a 28 day program and right back to us for 90 days. No one want to talk about that. No one wants to talk about the fact we are a clinical training institution with the Texas commission on alcohol and drug abuse which would allow people from the acc community that are in the human resource field that might want to do their internship with us we're right down the street. No one talks about that stuff. No one talks about we're going to also provide aids education allege testing from that site for people in the community. They need to be educated. They need to know ignorance is bliss. We've seen a lot of that tonight. It's bliss. What we don't know, we can just stick our heads in the sand and say, well, I don't know. I'm giving you some facts tonight. I'm not standing up here trying to blow smoke. I'm not standing up here trying to change anybody's mind. They came in with their minds made up. But what I want to say is there is a lot of people that didn't come here tonight that we have support letters from and you will receive them later. You know, that's what I want to -- that's what I want you guys to know. I want you guys to see the whole picture. Because it is a lot of them came out tonight, but where are they now? is it really important they want to see it to the end? they say their part and leave just like they've been doing with all the public hearings we've had. They say their part and they don't want to hear the truth, the facts, they can to stay ignorant to this thing that is -- see, they are sleeping with the enemy. They are sleeping with the enemy, but they do not want to open their eyes to see that. They don't want to open their eyes to see how we can join hands to make the community a better community. We've got their police reports. We've got the police reports. You know, it's real nice for them to come up here and talk about how beautiful their community is. Have any of you rode in the community lately? [buzzer sounds].

>>Mayor Watson: thank you.

>> Thank you. [Applause].

>>Mayor Watson: barbara Williams. Barbara Williams. Be shown in favor. Thank you, merchandise Williams. No -- noel green. Is this tape? do we know? noel green.

>> Right here. First I would like to say thank you for letting me speak. I'm a counselor at "up to me" for the trc program which is the Texas rehabilitation program. It's the community based program that cheryl was speaking of. It's where people from the community if they would like to get help we can refer them out for 28 days, they can come back to us, where they can have supervised living for 90 days. And in that training we provide job placement, we provide job training skills where people can learn how to go on interviews, do resumes, applications, as well as continue their treatment. They have groups where they learn personal social adjustment skills, how to interact. When they leave the program, before they leave we also help them find housing whether in a recovery house or if they want to get an apartment. The program can really help the people from the community and we're looking to expand right now we have ten beds in the "up to me" program and we're look to go expand that if we move to the webberville area. Thank you. [Applause].

>>Mayor Watson: lisa better.

>> Good evening, everybody. I don't want to be repetitive so I'm going to try to do some new stuff and keep it kind of brief. First I wanted to go over some facts. We talked a lot about our track record and what I wanted to talk about was our quarterly reports. For the fiscal year 1998 the first quarter 94% of our residents tested negative for drug and alcohol use during treatment. The second quarter, 92% tested negative for drug and alcohol during treatment. Third quarter 95% and the fourth quarter 95 ps again. So we teal that we have a very respectable program and a good track record. A couple of the other things I just wanted to talk about, people have mentioned some of the benefits we can bring to the community and I wanted to give some real specifics regarding that as well. First off, we were going to bring aa, na and ca meetings to the area so all kinds of 12 step groups. A lot of our residents have family members from east Austin, and this would provide them and us the opportunity to help reintegrate with the family system. We have a family group where we invite family members to come participate in treatment. The other thing we do is hiv, aids training by the Austin-Travis County health department, and they would also provide free aids testing to any community member that would want to come in for that a lot of our residents have community service restitution they have to complete. That could be helpful to some of the businesses and agencies in that community as well. As cheryl had mentioned we are a clinical training institute, we can train students from acc or other colleges. We are a provider and that's a benefit to us and the students. We can refer people from off the streets that are -- have problems with drug and alcohol if we are note able to hem them we can get them into somewhere else and every other kind of service too. As noel said we are increasing our trc program to open up some beds for community members that might need vocational training and job placement. Or just supervised living. And again, just many of our residents are very skilled and I think that they would be an asset to the businesses in that community and to the community as a whole. So I just hope that you all will consider these positive aspects of our program for the community. Thank you. [Applause].

>>Spelman: I do not want to prolong the program, but I would like to direct a couple questions to the last speaker because this is the first time I've heard some facts which I can use and I would like to follow up just a little bit if I could.

>>Mayor Watson: that's not direction to anybody to repeat those facts in future speeches. [Laughter].

>>Spelman: how often do you do drug tests?

>> we do random drug testing so it's all the time.

>>Spelman: over the course of a quarter if I were a participant would I be tested once, twice, three times?

>> in a quarter at least three times. At least. Most likely more.

>>Spelman: so something like once a month?

>> we usually do it for han that but that would be the minimum.

>>Spelman: when you said there's a 94% negative rate toss that mean 94% of the participants tested every time they were tested every time?

>> for that quarter 94% tested negative.

>>Spelman: consistently negative.

>> Correct.

>>Spelman: that means 6% tested positive in one or more of the tests.

>> Correct.

>>Spelman: but 94% no drugs at all?

>> correct.

>>Spelman: what percentage of participants were Austin residents?

>> I don't have that break down on that stat.

>>Spelman: could you give me an educated guess?

>> that would be hard to say. We get a lot of people from out of the county because there aren't many transitional treatment centers in Texas.

>>Spelman: okay. Could you give me a rough estimate for what percentage participants were East Austin residents? that's probably harder to do, isn't it?

>> I can't do it.

>>Spelman: let me ask you a controversial question. About what percentage of participants are black, hispanic and white?

>> I would say it changes greatly, but right now I would say we have a largely hispanic population. As far as a breakdown in numbers, I couldn't do that right now. I didn't plan for that stat.

>>Spelman: I understand that. A last question, could you give me a rough estimate for the percentage of your participants who -- first of all, what percentage of participants were convicted of a crime before they entered your program?

>> all of them.

>>Spelman: all of them. What percentage were convicted of a property or violent crime as opposed to a a drug crime?

>> most of our residents have criminal backgrounds such as dwi, there is some burglary, some robbery. Controlled substance possession. And actually I have brought a breakdown of those that I can submit to you if you would like to look at that. And I have the quarterly reports as well.

>>Spelman: I would like to look at a couple of those too. Thank you.

>> You are welcome.

>>Mayor Watson: let me ask a question of the folks here in favor of this. We've kind of kidded, but seriously, I believe you there is a tape. [Laughter]. But how were you planning on presenting the tape? just at some point calling it up?

>> we were told that I took the tape back there, that's when I was informed [inaudible] they said I need to do get the first name of the person that would like to give their time away and I did that. I thought I did. There's one other -- more people that would like to give their time to the tape. That tape is of people that would be in the impacted area.

>>Mayor Watson: here's the question I've got for the group. It is 11:30 at night. We're up to speaker 91 and my pleas aren't getting me anywhere so my question though is this, if we were to go ahead -- there's at least four people that have donated time to the tape. I'm confident there is a fifth person out there, we would look for them. And that would give 15 minutes which is the most anybody can anybody can waive in terms of time. If we were to take the tape at this point, how many people would feel the need to still speak in favor if you haven't spoken or would you feel like seeing the tape would now bring some closure -- we still have one person. Still have people -- all right. [One moment please].

>> Thank, candie.

>> How long is the tape, does anybody have a clue how long the tape is? because it didn't give any of its specifications.

>> 48 Minutes. [Laughter].

>> Are you kidding me? you all brought a 48 minute tape.

>> There's a lot of people --.

>>Mayor Watson: we are not going to do that.

>> Then there's letters of support I think from some of the same people.

>>Mayor Watson: start playing the tape, at the end of 15 minutes, we are going to shut off the tape. Folks, seriously, you can beat us to death, and we still may not vote that way. At some point advocacy is also effective by saying less. And particularly is true when you are going to put us past midnight and we are other people that want to be heard on other issues. I have tried over and over again to convey that message. And -- apparently beating us into submission is now the tactic. And I don't think that's appropriate. So what we will do is play the tape now, and at 15 minutes we are going to shut off the tape. At which point I will go back to reading cards until we come to the end. Let's play the tape.

>> I am albert, this is my wife april. We are voters, we live at 4605 cisco street. We have been living here all of our lives. We are homeowners, I am aware of "up to me" and moving in by us. We are three blocks away from where they are going to be located. I understand what these individuals are going through, I have personal family going through the same things, I am in full support of what's happening here. I believe that we can help. [Inaudible] we want to change. They can do good. Not only for themselves, but -- I am in full support of what's happening here. I understand and I am aware of what these people have been through. I also know that -- what they can do for themselves to make it be better. [Inaudible] thank you for listening to me, thank you for having everything ready for us. Sorry for the inconvenience we have caused.

>> My name is angelo herrera, in anticipation I would like to thank the City Council to listen to my few words about a possible relocation of a -- of a treatment, transitional treatment center to 2915, which used toed to be lalo center. I have lived here 40 years, I am a voter, I firmly believe that this is quite well needed in this community. I am well aware of the offenders background of drugs and whatever. But that doesn't mean anything to me. I'm supporting the idea of this [inaudible] for some reason have to be treated and have to be rehabilitated. Why not? in our neighborhood? the center here will definitely improve our conditions and also will see even our own children will see what the rehabilitation center is for and eventually it will be instead of a -- of being against the neighborhood, it will be a [inaudible] I firmly believe we as a believing in this neighborhood and citizens of Austin, we should approve something like this for the benefit of all of the guys in the community that need this as a way of life. And I thank the City Council again one more time. I appreciate the -- you listening to me and I hope that this will pass for the benefit of those and for the community.

>> My name is bird wale ye, a long-time resident for Austin, for 10 years have been the director of employment services for an Austin non-profit organization that serves people with disabilities. I was also appointed by Mayor todd and Mayor pro tem Garcia to serve on the Mayor's committee for people with disabilities. This year I have the good fortune to be employed by "up to me", incorporated. A non-profit community based organization that serves individuals in recovery from substance abuse. "Up to me", incorporated, was my introduction to working with recoverees from substance abuse, I was apprehensive about it. I thought as probably most people do that individuals who have committed substance abuse offenses are incorrigibles. I was pleased to discover that men of all ages who are recovering from substance abuse are average, everyday people. Not only do I make quite a few good friends among the recoverees, but I developed a strong appreciation for the work of pat jennings and her non-profit "up to me" incorporated. I also want to praise the hard working counselors of "up to me" who are the key people who work every day with the men in recovery. "Up to me" operates a very successful treatment program and I encourage you, the City Council, to approve their application to relocate to the -- to their new location, thank you.

>> I would like to thank the city Council for listening to a few words that I have to say about "up to me". My name is sherri makes see, associate manager at what-a-burger at 62 on 5 north lamar. They have been really good neighbors, [inaudible] we've had several employees from there. We have a couple that still work here that have graduated from the program. They turned out to be excellent employees. We have some graduated and went back home. They were good employees while they were here. I was here for a year an a half, we have never had any kind of conflict in them. They help our business a lot. They are pretty regular customers here. Never causing any kind of disturbance. And I just really appreciate their business. And a personal note that I do know personally a few of them that have graduated, they are very good people, I would like to thank you for listening to what I have to say. Thank you.

>> I would like to address the Councilmembers, my name is evelyn dibbles, I am a voter, I've been living in this neighborhood for two years. And I live in the 02 area code -- zip code, I'm sorry. I am aware of the background of "up to me" and what they are trying to do for the community, I think it's a positive thing. There have been a lot of people that -- that are not going to make it because of places like this. I mean, if we don't put places like this in areas like this, how do you ever know what's going on unless you take part of -- in it yourself. A lot of people are against this because trying to protect their neighborhoods, but you really are better off by having this facility in your neighborhood. My opinion is that we need to get together and support each other as a community and stop being so negative and find out -- I mean, if you don't know about it, do some research, find out what's in your neighborhood, find out that this thing is positive. And I just support it. I think it's a great thing. The people that you don't see, it's a lot of people, a lot of my friends that are sitting on both sides of me are not here to talk for me. I am talking for people that are not here. A lot of them can't speak because they are still in crack houses or as you know my population half of the men are in the penitentiary or dying of aids. I feel like it's in my best interest to be a strong supporter of this -- of "up to me". I think it's great and I will do whatever I can to support it and get others to support it. So that's -- that's basically all that I have to say.

>> Austin Councilmembers, the politicians, I am a voter, I am a home owner, I have lived in this area for 27 years. I am about six blocks from rosewood, zaragosa where the treatment center is going to be at lala, I I believe this, if god is for us to put that center there, who can be more than the world against it? I believe that we will get it. And I will thank the City Council if it's for it.

>> Right down the street from me, and we've had a good impact from their participation in the community. We've hired a gentleman that was part of their program. He's proved to be a hard worker. And I think he's turning his life around. And he's being employed here at abc. And I do care about Austin because I am an Austin native, I have lived here my whole life. I have been in the restaurant supply business for about 20 years, so I would like to say some good things about that place and the people that run it, it's been a positive thing and hopefully you can look at it in a new perspective. Thank you.

>> I live right next door to "up to me". I have lived here for four years, I have never had a problem, this place is real close to where I live. Which is right over here. It streches all the way down. Never had a problem at all. Everybody is always asleep by 10:30. Everybody is usually gone by 6:00 in the morning, I never hear any loud music complaints, anything. No cussing, very good neighbors to have. I have a very big yard. Nothing has ever been missing out of my yard ever. I have a whole bunch of bamboo over here, which they have cut down for me before, which they are very -- it's a very hard, hard task. I really like everything that they have done for these people. I think they deserve everything they need and everything they want. There's my four foot fence that separates me from them. I hate to see them go. They have been very good neighbors. I hope they get everything they need. I thank you very much.

>> That's all on that tape, Mayor.

>> Channel 6, is there a problem with the tape?

>> that's all on that tape.

>>Mayor Watson: all right. Folks, that means that there's -- there's right at 3 minutes left. Do you mind if we stop at this point? okay.

>>Slusher: Mayor, can I --.

>>Mayor Watson: yes, Councilmember Slusher. It's now 14 minutes until midnight. And we have been -- I am not sure what time we took up this item, we have been on it for --.

>>Mayor Watson: off and on more than a couple of hours.

>>Slusher: it's been well more than a couple of hours, I would say two or three times that much. I think there's a deadline on this where -- one thing we can do when we have lengthy public hearings is continue the public hearing to the next meeting. But we can't do that this time because as we have already stated we have to make a decision tonight. We also have some other items still to go. And I think the best way to do the public's business was -- would be to -- for us to decide this very soon rather than just going on into the early morning hours. I don't know if we would be making the best decision for the public on this or the following item, so therefore I would move that we take two more speakers on each side and then in the public -- and then end the public hearing. [Applause]

>>Mayor Watson: motion has been made to suspend the rules and seconded by Councilmember Garcia. What we would do is take two more speakers on either side and that would suspend the rules, put us a little bit after midnight. When we would be able to close the public hearing on this item. Is there any discussion? hearing none, all those in favor say aye. Opposed say no. The motion carries with Councilmember Lewis off the dias. What I would do is I will read cards and call out the names and the first two people that want to speak, will get to speak and then we will -- we will take two on each side. Morris overstreet, ii. He signed up in favor. Stephanie wigins, not speaking but for. Bryan balke, balque. For, in favor. Charlie mckantz, Jr., for. Ray ates, for. Melissa perkins, melissa perkins. Show you in favor. Tomika catlin for. Peter yaraka, or jyerika for. Frederick braken for. William young, William young for. Reverend eddie warner, for. Diedra lebbon, for. Rhonda taylor, rhonda taylor, for. Lucille Watson, for. Shirley alexander, shirley alec sander for. Bobby smith, for. Terry scott, for. Nick acosta -- you wish to speak. He will be one of the two speakers.

>> I guess not.

>> For.

>>Mayor Watson: all right. Mr. Acosta is for. Danny gonzales. Danny gonzales is for. Jeffrey green, for. Sylvester arraneo, for. Romero valdez, for. Demitrus morgan, for. Chris Paul deer, for. Derrick horton, for. Ms. Delores l hall, for. Willie alexander, for. La donna tavernea, for. Did I even come close to your last name? she's for. Jakieme e.hall is for. Dawn surrat is for. Myron e. Burst is for.

>> I would like to give my time to patricia jennings.

>>Mayor Watson: we are going to have two speakers for a total of six minutes. Deborah Johnson? against. Linda lfm norris, linda l.norris is against "up to me" in the neighborhood. Dr. Floyd davis? do not want. Greg Williams? greg Williams? for. Daniel Williams, daniel Williams, for. Jo lynn piercesy.

>> Already spoken.

>>Mayor Watson: I'm sorry, okay. I don't know why her card is in here.

>> I got called already before.

>> Phyllis barkley.

>> Against.

>> Phyllis barkley?

>> against.

>>Mayor Watson: okay. Shown against. Robert allen?

>> I would like to speak.

>> All right. Mr. Allen, please come forward.

>> I would first like to start by saying thank you for everyone here for giving us the opportunity, I know time is getting late. I think that I bring a unique perspective to this. I am a former corrections officer with the Texas department of criminal justice. I passed out some maps and if you look at that, you would see where the facility would be located and you see another little spot of a house, that's my house right there on glen ray, so I think that I am in the right place to be speaking about this. First I would like to say that -- that I am -- I am basically going to be talking about what I have seen, while I was working inside tdcj. I worked maximum security, medium, minimum, my last two and a half years I've worked at the halbert unit in burnet, Texas. What I would like to talk about is some things that I heard from some of the clients who relapsed. They went out and I am fully aware of everything that goes on, ttj houses, all of the jargon, this that and the other. But these particular people that I spoke to, they went out, had bad experience, it could have been not being able to find a job, peer pressure, it could have been a rehab trigger or relapse trigger, whatever the case may have been. But what I am saying is I believe the program works, I would like to applaud everyone here that's working with "up to me", I am not here to criticize anyone. But what I am here to say is this: this is our neighborhood and I do believe it's up to us. I also want to say I appreciate the City Council taking the time out because I will say the comment was made that a certain gentleman was appalled that you could sit where you are sitting and make this decision. But I would also like to say this, I appreciate you sitting in the spot that you are sitting at. The reason I say that is this: there's a circle drawn on that map and I would like for you to look at those cards and see where the addresses are and see how many people should fit inside that circle. And certainly you all would not fit inside that circle, but give it the exact same amount of weight when you are making your decision, thank you.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you, sir. [Applause]

>>Mayor Watson: mike garby. Looks like you are for, but not speaking. Okay. Theresa cannon.

>> For.

>>Mayor Watson: for and speaking in please come forward.

>> Good evening, everyone. I am for the "up to me" facility coming into the neighborhood of 2915 approximately webberville. I live about six blocks away from the proposed area where they are trying to move. I have a very unique story, mine is much different from everything that you have heard tonight. First of all, let me say that we do have supporters in the neighborhood. I have brought support letters with me. And the other fact is that these are also silent supporters and I need to also say that the zoning isn't an issue here because the proposed facility area is zoned in the correct area where "up to me" is trying to move their new facility. And my unique story is this: I have heard a lot of people come in and talk about why it can't happen, but I am one of the reasons why it can happen. Because I came from -- a well established drug facility in East Austin, almost six years ago. I had to catch the bus, I had to do whatever was needed for me to graduate from that facility. And when I went to that facility, my idea was I wanted to get off the drugs. Years later I found out it was much more than the drugs that I needed to do. So I caught the bus early in the morning, 5:00 in the morning, catching a bus to go make $5 an hour way at bee caves and 360 and then making it back for my treatment program. And there was obstacles out there. The facility was right next door to a convenience store that I went into on a daily basis to get a soda. During this time I wanted a drink. I'm a recovering addict. But I had to keep pushing and do the right thing. With less than six months clean I got approval for a two story home to be built in this neighborhood. I still didn't think that I was worth what society was giving me an opportunity to do. But I helped build that home, I helped put the windows up, I helped caulk, I helped standing on top of the two story area. [Buzzer sounding] and I would like to say that during all that time it showed me that I can be somebody. And this facility can teach someone to be somebody as well. Thank you.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you very much. [Applause]

>> patricia jennings?

>> good evening, Mayor and Councilmembers. My name is patricia jennings. I am the administrator of "up to me", incorporated. This is an organization that my mom, myself and my sister started in 193. Since that time my mother passed. I have went through a tremendous amount of obstacles, trials and tribulations in being a public servant trying to help these guys live a clean and sober life. The goals of "up to me" are to bring about behavioral -- behavior modification to subvert the need and use of mind altering chemicals through prevention education and treatment. To provide for the rehabilitation and reintegration of clients back into our communities. Our present location have served this purpose well. Our organization and surrounding neighborhoods, schools, and businesses have all enjoyed and shared the same wonderful characteristics of which the rosewood, zaragosa and oaks neighbor speaks about. The crestview neighborhood located in back of our dwelling is primarily made up of the elderly, single parents and students. It has a youth ball field and an active association members of 60 persons with no complaints against our residents. The president of the highland cherry dale neighborhood association, ms. Dorothy jones, states that she has lived there for 40 years and their elderly make up 70% of the neighborhood. The association has 60 members and has not -- there has not been one single complaint against "up to me". The brentwood neighborhood association has 2,000 members, a neighborhood park, no complaints against our fall. Our facility is five blocks away from mccallum high school, three blocks away, apartments with 288 units and half of its residents are u.t. Students. Our clients both catch the bus and ride the bus with these students. The present principal of riley elementary schools two blocks away from our facility states that during his tenure they have not experienced any negative effects of the facilities nor our residents being in the community. The previous principal of riley states there were very -- they were very active in the community and he can say with no reservations that our organization has not been a distraction in their community. Helen derry, director of faith Lutheran preschool with children age six weeks old and five years states that there has not been any problems with our residents in the community. [Buzzer sounding].

>>Mayor Watson: thank you very much.

>> Thank you. [Applause]

>>Mayor Watson: ralph serta for, mark keith reese for, jeff roper for, thomas morgan for. Delores hall, for. Aaron chandler for. Charles Watson, for. Curtis nunn, for. Charles moody, for. Daryl mirrors, for. Joseph perkins, for. Jordan perkins, for. James l. Stuart, james l stuart, do not want it in the neighborhood. Then I called earlier, he donated time, but I am not sure that we had that person speak, tony okigweh was for. Those are all of the people that have signed up to speak. With the suspension of the rules, I will entertain a motion to close the public hearing on item no. 79. Motion made by Councilmember Slusher. Seconded by Councilmember Griffith. Is there any discussion? Mayor pro tem? Councilmember Garcia.

>>Goodman: I think the gentleman in the front row held his time to give to somebody and never did?

>>Mayor Watson: is that right?

>>Goodman: I don't remember.

>>Mayor Watson: sir, did you hold your time to give to somebody else and then never donated it?

>> yes, I did.

>>Mayor Watson: do you wish to speak or just be shown in opposition.

>> I want to speak but I don't want to speak. [Laughter].

>>Mayor Watson: I know the feeling. [Laughter].

>>Garcia: been there, done that.

>>Mayor Watson: any further discussion on the motion to close the public hearing? hearing none, all those in favor say aye. Opposed say no. The motion carries with Councilmember Lewis off the dias. The public hearing on item no. 79 Is closed. That will take us to item no. 80. I will entertain -- why don't I entertain a motion on item no. 80, Then we can discuss the motion.

>>Goodman: before we to go a motion, can I ask a quick question of legal.

>>Mayor Watson: sure. Ms. Terry, could you answer a question for the Mayor pro tem.

>>Goodman: it's relative to what constitutes taking action. The 60 days, when was the -- when was the time begun, what was the trigger and is final action necessary at the end of 60 days or having -- having come into the end of the cycle the fact that we are taking action now by hearing does it in any way put a hold on the deadline?

>> I can't -- I can't tell you the exact dead -- the exact date that the notice was given. I don't have that in front of me. But I can tell you that we looked at that date earlier, I believe it was -- if I could get one of the aides, I think the counsel aides have that date. I do know that 60 daytime period is running. Just conducting the public hearing is not enough, you do have to take action. September the 8th.

>>Goodman: I the -- the reason I asked is I don't remember ever getting any kind of formal notification telling me that the Council as a Council was in a 60 daytime frame and at the end of that 60 days we would have had to take action or not. In fact at the beginning I thought Councilmember Lewis's item was voluntary way to put a forum into being for folks to talk about it. And not at all that it was required of us to act.

>> There was a letter received by the City, it was no formal notice 689 we have actual notice. The argument can be made that we need to take action if we are going to be taking action. We have notice, we have notice, the date on the letter is september the 8th.

>>Goodman: who is we?

>> the City. The notice was sent to the city. City of Austin.

>>Goodman: when does it come to Council's notice then that they have 60 days?

>> when it gets set on the agenda. The City is construed to have formal notice. The Council is consequence construed to have formal notice when that notice is received.

>>Goodman: it would have been good to know when that the 60 days started because I know we haven't been planning this for 60 days.

>> I cannot answer that question. All I know is that there is a letter that the City received that's dated september the 8th. And -- I think Councilmember Slusher's aide has a copy of it. Who --

>> willie Lewis's aide who is no longer here.

>> Dwight had a copy of it. We formally received that notice. We had actual notice. We cannot argue that we didn't have notice. The 60 days is about to run. We do need to take action.

>>Goodman: well, here's my frustration, then I will leave it be. This did not seem like a situation to me where everybody had to wind up being in total confrontation with each other. Since there were neighborhood people from where the center exists, who were very strong advocates and even some of them were on the tape we watched, and as a person who comes outs of health and human services provision, I know that often enough if you are able to work with the neighborhood you might be able to come to some consensus, which obviously didn't happen here. There were neighbors who wrote letters, but were apparently not part of the neighborhood association. Obviously when you put an item on the agenda, then are told in fact at the very last minute that today is your 6 onth day, obviously there's no way that you are going to have the opportunity to see if there was some kind of meeting of the minds possible. So it's a little frustrating.

>>Mayor Watson: is there a motion with regard to item no. 80.

>>Garcia: yes, Mayor.

>>Mayor Watson: Councilmember Garcia.

>>Garcia: two things first, then I will make the motion. I think the staff needs to look at places like mission village where we have spent some money. Someplace for something like this. There's no question about the fact that this community needs this kind of an institution or places of service. The second thing is that this particular area as a -- is a neighborhood that is coming back. And as the neighbors have said, you know, putting an institution like this one there, an agency like this, can be a blow to them. They have been very excited about the fact that the community college has gone there and they are very excited that that's going to really improve their neighborhood. So I am going to move to deny their -- their consent and direct the -- direct the City manager to assist some of the members of his staff to assist in finding a place, I think mission village is one place where they can start their search.

>>Mayor Watson: motion has been made by Councilmember Garcia to deny the consent for the placement of the facility and to direct the City Manager and his staff to assist in finding an appropriate venue for this type of facility. Is there a second? Councilmember Slusher I will second.

>>Mayor Watson: seconded by Councilmember Slusher, any discussion?

>>Slusher: I would like to explain my second. This very, very tough case. I agree with Mayor pro tem Goodman that this is one that might have benefited from sort of a better process, whereas this process we inherit from the state that maybe something could have been worked out. But -- and I agree we need to have these type of facilities. There's absolutely for doubt about that. Up to me seems like a very solid organization from some of the inspiring stories that we heard tonight. But, also, as Councilmember Garcia said, this is a neighborhood that has come back really from -- from being in a lot worse shape. And I've had the pleasure to work with some of the people living there and who have played a big role in bringing it back long before I was on the Council. What I hear them saying is there is too many of these type of facilities in east Austin, that the neighborhood has revitalizes itself with the help of the City, too many educational facilities near this, including the new acc, and when you have -- there's obviously a community split about what to do in this case and what we have seen tonight and so to me it comes down to relying on the wisdom of the people who have built this neighborhood when -- when they say they don't think this facility would be appropriate for the area.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you. Any further discussion? Councilmember Spelman.

>>Spelman: I am not sure what to extend. So I am going to extend things just a moment. I won't say much. I appreciate particularly the factual based presentations made by the proponents of this program, I appreciate knowing more, I appreciate hearing the testimony yals of people who have been through this program. I am persuaded this is a traffic program of which we need a lot more. It's done more for people than anything we can do in prisons, undeniable clear, the research says this, testimonials say this we can do a lot more for people in community than we can do in jails and prisons. I think this is the sore of program in which we need more. This is a sterling example of that kind of thing. I don't think this program ought to be as scary to the neighborhood as it appears to be. 80% Of the people who are going through this program have been convicted of drug crimes or property crimes. The vast majority of them are dwi's, convicted of possession, not of drug dealing. They are not the kind of people who are as fearsome as I think the community is expecting. The vast majority of the rest of them are property criminals, we are talking about small time theives, people who steal cars. I have been working with cops for a long time, I know small time burglaries, small time auto thefts are rarely going to be career criminals. Rarely the scary kind of people we are all so worried about. On the other hand I am not sure we are doing the program any favors by allowing to it locate into a neighborhood which seems as solidly against it as this neighborhood seems to be. I think the problem as Daryl mentioned is mostly one of process rather than one of content. What I think we ought to do is lild -- I am going to vote to deny this application, not because it's not an excellent program. I think it's a great program. Not because I think it's going to be risky for this neighborhood. Because I don't. But because the neighborhood believes it's going to be risky. For me I think that's enough. I think we need to put the burden of proof on the program to be able to sell itself for the neighborhood as not being scary, providing -- I am going to vote to deny, but I would like to hold up the possibility of this program working with a mediator, working through a better process when it's looking for the next place for it to want to go. If we can enlist the assistance of a mediator to sort of work through the traps, help to engage the neighborhood early on in explaining what the program is really all about, what the risks really are, what the program can do to mitigate those risks, I think we can find ourses in a situation where the next neighborhood will be much less against this program than this neighborhood is right now. In the long run, I think it's going to be better for the program, the participants for the neighborhood as well.

>>Mayor Watson: Mayor pro tem?

>>Garcia: I would consider that last part to be a friendly amendment to this motion.

>>Spelman: I would like to consider it as such. That would be great. In fact would it be appropriate --.

>>Mayor Watson: hang, on let me try something else real quick. Mayor pro tem, it's her idea that you want to do it or you want me to do it?

>>Goodman: doesn't matter. Go ahead.

>>Mayor Watson: here's a thought. The thought is, I think that you have unaimoty on the City Council that "up to me" is a program that is wore these of support as a program. Wore these of support as a program, one that we can affirmatively get behind and be enthusiastic about. I think we are unanimous on that. I also think that there is probably close to being union unanimous, going to be my guess, that right now faced with a vote, the City Council is probably going to vote against the consents. Vote in favor of the motion that's been made and against granting the consent. I also think there's probably unanimoty, by the way a vote to deny the consent is not a vote against this program, although it's been characterized by some of the many speakers here tonight that a vote to deny it will somehow reject programs like this, rejecting trying to do right by people that need this. You kind of make a cynical face at me, but that's the way it's been characterized by many people here tonight. That would not be the case with that vote. Just that we are faced with having to make a decision, I think that's the way people would come down on this. The third thing I think that you would find unanimous on, if we feel like there's one of these situations where there's more time for people to work on things, some of the fears and other ideas might be able to be handled better. I would recommend some type of mediated activity, facilitated type of activity, I would recommend that people take care in who she select to be the advocates during such a process. Because some people, this isn't meant to be critical, but some people's attitudes about this can impact other people's points of view, including people they are trying to get to make decisions by the way. Having said that, one possibility would be, we are having the law looked at here, but if up to me withdrew their request, and reapply ied that might put them in a situation where they would buy another period on the clock. And that would mean that a decision wouldn't have to be made and -- today. In other words, you would buy another 60 days. And the Council could work on a process independent of what the state process requires, but that would allow the neighborhood to work in conjunction with "up to me" and see if such a thing could be worked out. A now, if we get to the period where it comes back up for a vote and it can't, what I anticipate would occur is that you would have -- we would have to have another public hearing, I tell ya I will vote against this in a heart beat if we are going to have another public hearing this long, but what we would probably do is have a public hearing about an hour long, vote to suspend the rules, have a public hear, let people discuss the process, where we are on the process marks a determination at that point, no more than an hour of a public hearing, while it would be a second public hearing under law, it would really be stance actively the same type of thing, ms. Terry, how much time would you need to make a determination legally whether that can occur?

>> let me go talk to my boss.

>> Here's what I would recommend. We've been at this now a while, what's another 10 hours? what I would suggest we do is we have closed the public hearing. I would ask at this point that Councilmember Garcia and Councilmember Slusher withdraw their motion. We will move to another agenda item. And deal with that until ms. Terry can come back, we will immediately come back to this item but I don't want to have a motion out on the table while we move to another agenda item. Do you already have an answer?

>> I have confered with Mr. Martin, between the two of us, we believe that if "up to me" desires they can withdraw their notification of the City and they could then have an additional time. I might point out it's not necessarily another 6 on days. It's triggered by when they give notice. They could have a longer period of time to work out their differences with the neighborhood. But they do need to formally withdraw their notice for that to takes place. Otherwise the Council does need to make a decision tonight.

>>Mayor Watson: ma'am, it's jennings, right? could you please come forward. Your title again?

>> I am administrator of "up to me", incorporated.

>> Do you have the authority to deal with this application and notice?

>> yes, I do.

>>Mayor Watson: do you have -- what would you like to do with regard to the proposal that I have just outlined?

>> I would like to withdraw.

>> All right. So we could -- the City of Austin, with your authority, could consider that to be a formal withdrawal?

>> yes.

>>Mayor Watson: all right. What I would recommend, ms. Jennings, based upon what I believes the Council is supportive of, what I gave that little speech a minute ago, I didn't have any dissent, I am assuming they were supportive of all of that, is that you work with -- you can do it through my office or some other office, we will work with the neighborhoods to try to come up with a process that we utilize, it may not work, but like I say, I think that you have got union miscellaneous Council on a, being supportive of your program and the fine work your program does, unanimous, b faced with the decision tonight, I think among the ones that are going to vote, Councilmember Lewis is going to recuse himself, that you would not prevail tonight, but three trying to see if something can be worked out.

>> Okay.

>>Mayor Watson: is there any other discussion by Council? Mayor pro tem?

>>Goodman: I would like to say before we support this process, I assume we are going to help out with mediation, perhaps other technical support, I can't think of what that might be right now, but some kind of land use support, fear is a really powerful thing. And even when it's not based on actual possibilities, there are always stories of real things that happen to real people, that fear is a very tangible and legitimate thing. And neighborhoods have to have some control over what their future is going to be like for them. And this neighborhood has worked really long and really hard and they feel very fragile. So even if a program or an entry into the neighborhood didn't do what people were afraid it would do to their equally of life and to the stability of their neighborhood, the fact that they feared it might make that a de facto truth anyway. And to force feed neighborhoods with uses that they are dead-set against, I don't really think helps us come to be a neighborhood an be a community. And I speak out of experience with my own neighborhood on that. And a lot of other neighborhoods who have tried to integrate uses that they thought were not compatible and sometimes it worns, sometimes it doesn't. But if we don't give ourselves a forum to figure out whether it works, then of course it never will. I don't think this kind of hearing does anything except let everybody vent. Because I heard somebody say that they weren't trying to convince anybody, while I -- well, I think that's obviously what we do need to do. And they, meaning the neighborhood on one side and service providers on the other side are really we, but if we don't get a chance to sit down and actually talk about the issues, the we never happens. And this might give us the opportunity to see if we can't come one a way for us to all have a really strong neighborhood and a beneficial future. And if not, if not, but if you never give yourself the place to talk about it. It will never happen.

>>Mayor Watson: I will consider that to be a motion to allow the withdrawal and support the process as previously outlined. Is there a second? seconded by Councilmember Garcia. Councilmember Slusher do you have discussion?

>>Slusher: well, I guess. Ms. Jennings, I want to say that I am -- I just want to say that I am a little skeptical because it seems like to me it's -- maybe this just might be too close to single family homes, but I am willing to support some dialogue and I think probably some of the neighbors will probably be a little frustrated from having gone through the whole thing, got here tonight, now it's going to be 60 more days or so. And I am sure folks on your side are frustrated by some of the things that were said. Well, I can tell they are from some of the gestures and things that have been made to us while we have been up here talkinging.

>>Mayor Watson: I would suggest some of those folks may not be the ones that you want to work with the neighborhood.

>>Slusher: on the other hand I would like to reflect the organization of what folks are going to have there in the neighborhood. I think that you would. But there be a lot of respect for the neighbors an their concerns. Some of the comments tonight were I don't think -- I don't think were that respectful towards the neighbors, in as far as their feelings and their intelligence and their commitment to the neighborhood. And I know that the chairman of your board and I know she's a very respectful and respected person as far as I am concerned. A lot of people in your organization. I think that would be the case, I really would ask that of you.

>>Mayor Watson: Councilmember Garcia?

>>Garcia: I didn't understand the motion to be that they had to reapply on this one site. If they want to reapply for another site they have that latitude. I wouldn't want to have the neighborhood feel the pressure of thinking that they are going to come back with the same site. I did not understand that in the motion itself.

>>Mayor Watson: no. They are allowed to withdraw. They can give notice wherever they might want to give. But part of what is being attempted here is to, if they decide to file a notice again at this site, to create some -- this was a failured process here tonight. -- This Council has done a better job, I think, than lots of past history of trying to work through solutions as opposed to these things we call public hearings where Councilmember Goodman pointed out, nobody was trying to convince people with anybody. We call them public hearings, but there ain't nobody hearing nothing, I have kidded. But create a different process where there's some listening occur and maybe get to something that chaifs several goals. But I don't think that the motion requires that they -- if they are going to reapply, give renotice that they do it at the same site. Doesn't require that.

>>Garcia: this is the first time in my 64, almost 65 years that I have been preached at by a preacher about something that I said. But the reason that I said what I said and the question that I asked the lady that was talking about the planning was that she made a statement by saying people in that neighborhood you all are accepted because this institution, facility is going to improve it. I thought that to be a little bit out of line. I mean, who am I to go into a neighborhood and tell the people this -- this facility is going to improve your neighborhood. I think that that is really out of line. That's why I made the comments that I made.

>>Mayor Watson: that's what -- if I can emphasize something to you, ms. Jennings. When I say that you have a Council that I believe is anonymous of being in support of the work that "up to me" does -- union unanimous in support of the work that "up to me" do, it is very difficult to get people to support what it is that you are doing when they feel like something is being shoved down their throats. Whether they believe it or not, many of the people here tonight supportive of "up to me" and being where it is, that is what the attempt appears to have been, whether they intended that to be or not. Was to shove it not only done their throats, but to shove it down the throats of this City Council and frankly to be quite demeaning to the people that were being told you must accept this, that you are somehow ignorant, wrong headed and not willing to think if you don't just accept it.

>> Uh-huh.

>>Mayor Watson: after a lot of work that they have done in their neighborhood. I would really encourage you as we move into this process to work with some of the folks that are obviously very supportive and doing good work on your behalf and on by half of up to me, that they not act in that mode.

>> I apologize for that. I have no control over -- people's actions and what they say.

>> I understand. I don't even have control over these chambers.

>> I didn't -- I didn't project myself that way, I don't think.

>>Mayor Watson: no, ma'am, you did not.

>> The motion has been made and seconded, any further discussion hearing none, all those in favor say aye., opposed say no., motion carries with Councilmember Lewis off the dias, thank you all very much. Ms. Jennings.

>>Mayor Watson: I am going to go to number 47. I think that we will have a motion to postpone number 47.

>> I would like to say [inaudible].

>>Mayor Watson: folks, if you could -- everyone? if everyone could please take their conversations outside, we -- whether you believe it or not, we do have -- I haven't been lying to you all night, we really do have additional work we need to do. So we need to move to those items, Councilmember Slusher? why don't we just -- item no. 47. Motion has been made by Councilmember Garcia to postpone item no. 47, I will second it, any discussion? hearing none, all those in favor say aye. Opposed say no. Motion carries on item no. 47 With Councilmember Slusher, the Mayor pro tem --.

>> Wait, postponed to when?

>>Mayor Watson: two weeks is what I meant. With Mayor pro tem, Councilmember Slusher off the dias. We will go to item 16. Through 19. And I will recognize Councilmember Spelman. Sfel Mayor it's very late. Actually since I look a lot like Councilmember Slusher, let me sit in for him on this issue.

>>Mayor Watson: but you are sitting in Councilmember Griffith's chair.

>>Spelman: no one is fooled by that I am sure.

>>Spelman: do you mine my taking over your item, Daryl. Let me make a proposal, in view of the lateness of the hour and the complexity of the issue, but also in view of the fact that if we do approve 16, that the applicant, the developers of the village of western oaks would have a reasonable interest in moving quickly, let me make the following proposal, that we put off item 16, postpone item 16 for two weeks. But that we pass item 17, 18, 19, that's -- those are the three items which set a public hearing, we actually set the public hearing for the date and time suggested to december 10th, 1998, 7:00 p.m. Contingent on successful passage of 16 in two weeks. And further that we set item what is currently item 16 for a time certain early in the day next time so that everybody doesn't have to sit around here for 8 or 10 or 12 hours while we go through 12 other things.

>> Early in the evening.

>> Early in the afternoon, my apologies Mr. Bunch. I would prefer a time certain about 1:32. That's probably not realistic, but as early in the afternoon as possible.

>> After work.

>> After work. We have neighbors that have to keep getting off of work, they are getting paid.

>>Spelman: you are taking your chances early in the evening, but if you prefer that, that's okay with me. As long as everybody knows.

>>Mayor Watson: the motion has been made on items 17, 18, 19. To go ahead and set the opinion hearing at the suggested date and time of december 10th, 1998 architects 7:00 p.m. Con -- at 7:00 p.m., contingent upon the passage of item no. 16 In two weeks and to set item no. 16 For a time certain of 5 -- 6:00.

>> Sunset.

>>Mayor Watson: all right. 6:30.

>> 5:30.

>>Spelman: is 5:30. Mayor Watson. So the motion is 17, 18, 19, set would be -- we would have a public hearings -- here comes sue. Wait a minute.

>>Spelman: 6:00 is okay.

>>Mayor Watson: december 10th, december 10th, 1998, contingent upon the passage of the item that is currently no. 16 In two weeks and item no. 16 Will be set in two weeks to be discussed and heard by Council at 6:00 p.m. Is there a second? I will second it. Is there any discussion? hearing none, all those in favor say aye. Opposed say no. Motion carries on items 16, 17, 18, 19. That will take us to items 54 and 55. I will recognize Councilmember Spelman.

>>Spelman: I had a lot about this early to say. At this time of night I can't think of anything important. They are not worth that much trouble. I move approval of both items.

>>Mayor Watson: motion has been made to approve items 54 and 55. Seconded by Councilmember Garcia, any discussion? hearing none, all those in favor say aye., opposed say no., motion carries on items 54 and 55. I believe that takes care of all of the items unless Council can point me to something we haven't covered. I will entertain a motion to adjourn. Motion made by Councilmember Slusher, seconded by Councilmember Griffith to adjourn, any discussion? hearing none, all those in favor say aye, opposed say no., motion carries, we are adjourned thank you all very much.

>>Lewis: I don't want to leave. @E( ; ac t % o u o 8 - p r s 8n c g j I[p x f ] p e @ c I 8 @ = d r s 7h b w@ " 1 d @ & @ pg k d@ " d !a@ g # e & yk I @ a a u nq ( % " .p k f @ a @q t e @ #e k u @q # " 4 u sf au z px d @ dxs = c k8 @ @ a oi ! 2 ;s @ u a = v # ?u x b imt @ @ j 1 @ t ) d @ c d @ ,% g u ra 4y 8] 3p3p3d3 4y y 8 p]8]8 3 y4y y 3 y4y43 ] 83d9 4y y 3p]83 3 3 9 y 8] 83d3dc4y4 ]8 3d y4]8] x 3d3 ? o?? ? ? e n n n $ $ $$ $ - -. -5. -$$' $ -$ -' $- $ . . - -$ 5t.$ 5t.$ 55. $$.$.- 5 $ $ - - . $ 5 -$ $ .-. 5 - $5 $$$ - 5 5t.$ 5 .- $$$$ $ $ $ $ -.-. $ t -$ . . 5 $$$ $ $ $ - - 5 dn ndndamn mn n n mnmndn ndnmndndn ndn nmn

>> Mr. Chairman, I call for a record vote.

>> Very well. The record vote is on the motion --

>> Mr. Chairman --

>> who's seeking recognition?

>> Mr. Chairman?

>> just a moment, ms. Jackson-lee. I have to recognize Mr. Nabler.

>> Before we vote, I'd like to speak to Mr. Delahunt's motion. I appreciate the c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c wo 8w mm c > > !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! vicky: do you know he was having nightmares? grant: is he feeling better now? test test test test this is a test of the Austin City Council captioning.

>>Mayor Watson: hello, folks, welcome. It's my pleasure to begin the proclamations and certificates today. It's november 19th. Our first one relates to water wise, I am very pleased that christie durham and several water-wise participants are here with us today. Be it known by these presents, that I, Kirk Watson, Mayor of the City of Austin, do hereby proclaim that today november 19th, 1998, as water-wise day in Austin. I call on all citizens to join me in recognizing that water is one of our most precious resources and that water sources are limited and protected for future generations, in recognizing that a drought such as the one suffered by central Texas this summer reinforces the need to conserve water all the time. In commending the water-wise part necessary and water-wise irrigation professionals through the water-wise program for their dedicated efforts towards conserving water and in urging everyone to be water-wise always. Signed by me, Kirk Watson, Mayor of the City of Austin, I am very pleased

>> four of these persons are here today, jerry terry,.

>>Mayor Watson: jerry terry of turf team, thank you very much. [Applause]

>>Mayor Watson: always illiterate.

>> Terry folly with diamond scape.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you very much.

>> Hugh rushing of gorbert sprinkers. [Applause]

>>Mayor Watson: thank you.

>> Kevin o'brien of conservation concepts. [Applause] there were approximately 30 irgators that participate understand a special program to help save water. [Applause]

>>Mayor Watson: let's do it right.

>> All right.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you all very much. [Applause] I can't see a thing now. Ms. Gonzales? I am pleased with the next proclamation because I had the opportunity last year and the schedule didn't permit me to be involved this year as I would like have to been, but in the river City youth foundation, which does some outstanding work in the community. Be it known by these presents, that I, Kirk Watson, Mayor of the City of Austin, do hereby proclaim that today november 14th, 1998, as grand opening of the river City youth foundation success center day. I call on all citizens to join me in recognizing the grand opening of the river City youth foundation success center. In recognizing that this new facility will provide services such as counseling, tutoring, mentoring, job readiness training, character development, leadership training and community beautification. Also in recognizing all the individuals responsible for the creation of this new success center which will benefit the entire community. And in recognizing the river city youth foundation which has been serving Austin's youth since 1993, and encouraging everyone to come out to see everything the success center has to offer. It's signed by me, Kirk Watson, Mayor of the City of Austin. I am very pleased to present -- to present this to ms. Gonzales. [Applause]

>> you don't have to tell me where -- [laughter].

>> We are very honored today to receive this proclamation. I want to extend my thanks to Councilmember Garcia and Mayor pro tem Jackie Goodman for attending the grand ceremony on saturday. It was a fantastic success despite the drizzle and rain. We got rained out on october 17th, of that our first attempt, the day of the heavy flooding. You saw it. I think that that is symbolic of this organization and the spirit behind this organization. We have so many wonderful individuals who don't quit when it looks like it's time to quit, they don't. They just keep working even harder. With us today we have a member of our board, breck jordan. [Applause] certainly I think he is exemplary of that spirit as well. Rudy davila is here, also. They are representing a terrific board of directors that again when they said it coon be done, it was done and it is done and is going to be beautiful. Two acres of land donated by the van dam family here in Austin, we have named the two acres dillon park named after dylan, their young son who turned 14 this last end. With us also here today is a very special member of our organization, josie reyes, would you join me. [Applause] by way of introduction, josie represents the true spirit of our organization because she is a parent of seven children who are all residents of this beautiful community. And her story is very special. I have known her for many years. She is here to share her story, a little bit of her story because the reason that we do river City youth foundation is to help kids and families and I think if you don't hear from her, even if you hear from the rest of us, you won't really know what river City youth foundation is all about. So I am going to turn over the mike to her.

>>Mayor Watson: great.

>> Thank you. I met this lady 15 years ago through the program. I had seven children in school. And I was a single mom. And I started having problems with my kids in school, the grades started falling, I was working two jobs, and just couldn't do it. So my youngest daughter got help through travis high school. They worked with her through the program, they introduced my other daughter and right now these girls are very successful young women, one is a medical assistant, with a pediatrician here in Austin. The other one is a sales accountant supervisor at dunn and bradstreet. All of the other children are very successful, I have a lot to be grateful for. I know there's a lot of people out here that do not realize just how important it is to get involved. Whether it is with your time, with your money, with your presence, because these kids know and they are watching us. I saw at the open house I saw all of these kids, there was a houseful of kids, I saw them, yes, they were there for the food and everything, but it's real important to them to know that people care. And that's what it's all about. It's -- if you can save one life, there were enough people back then in that program to save my two girls and just think of it in those terms. If you can save one life, it's worth it. It's worth it. And it doesn't take a whole lot of money. I don't invest any money in this program. I am there and I don't invest any money, not one red cent. But I am there because I want to give something back. I want to give something back. [Applause]

>>Mayor Watson: thank you.

>> You want to hold this? we are going to announce for the first time publicly on december the 12th, because remember it's two acres of land, we have been very blessed, it's live oak trees more beautiful than any that I have ever seen, and the kids want to do a mini trail of lights and they are going to have food, tamales, buenlos, all sorts of goodies outlet there, we are extending the invitation on their behalf to the whole up community to come out to dove springs and join us, to get into the christmas spirit here's examples. The kids are making ornaments, springing lights, doing all sorts of fun things, to teach them skills, how to have fun in a positive way. Also to host something that is of their own doing for the members of the community that loves them and whom they love as well. It's a very, very good project, I invite you to come out. December 12th, from 4:00 to 8:00. The address is 5209 south pleasant valley road. In dove springs, call 440-11 if you wish to get any additional number. 440-111 For additional information. Thank you very much, see you december the 12th.

>>Garcia: thank you, Mayor, I'm Gus Garcia, I serve on the Austin City Council in place 2. Today it's my pleasure to present a proclamation to a group of people that I guess I have known now for about 25, 26 years. Proclamation as an organization. And that's community education. It reads as follows be it known by these presents, that Kirk Watson, Mayor of Austin, does proclaim november 15, 1998, community education week in Austin. John and ricky. [Applause] I call on all citizens to join us in recognizing the community education program as a partnership within the City of Austin and Austin independent school district. I was on the board at the time that this program was started. On the Austin school board. Then I came here, I have continued to work because I believe in the program. With a goal of connecting children, families and individuals with community resources made available at schools. In recognizing that community education spans the spectrum of family -- can we make this proclamation -- where's the Mayor? shorter? [laughter] you always give me the ones that have a lot of --.

>>Mayor Watson: [inaudible] short.

>>Garcia: in recognizing that community education spans the spectrum of family and youth support through a variety of programs including victory tutoral programs, summer success, adult basic education, english as a second language collaboration and others allowing thousands of children and adults in our community to participate in community education programs and ining community education which has been selected by the national community education association as the outstanding organization in the nation for 1998-'99 and commending community education for its dedication to serving our community on this its 25th anniversary. So richard, let me present this to you and to John. [Applause]

>> thank you, Gus. it's an extreme pleasure to accept this award for the community education consortium and for the staff of community education. It's been my privilege to be on the community education consortium for the past approximately 16 years, one loses count after so long. I have been always impressed with the -- the strength of this program and the flexibility of this program to keep improving over time. And I think that's one of the reasons why it has been recognized over the years as being one of the best programs in the country. This collaboration between the aisd and the City was begun by pat olds and back in 1973 and proceeded to -- they proceeded to gain the support of the aisd and the City of Austin in 1975 when carol rylander was the president of the school board and jeff freedman was the Mayor of Austin. And as Gus pointed out, he was on the board and has continued to support us. There have been a number of elected officials who have served on the community education consortium over the years. I wanted to tell you a few of them, smoot carl-mitchell chel, Jackie Goodman of course on the City Council, manuel navarro, bob larson. I think that I started to be really interested in community ed when larry deuser suggested that I represent the Austin neighborhoods Council on the community education consortium. This program has helped schools to become the building block of the communities. There are neighborhood centers, they are the focus of the community. And it's been the great pleasure of the Austin neighborhood Council to support community education over all of these years. There have been -- there have been so many people that have supported community ed through the years, I'm sorry I can't mention everyone, but I would want to mention that we cross political lines. What I must say was also on the community education consortium is the executive director of the republican party. So we've had broad based support for many years and I believe that we have adjusted over time and done an excellent job. And I take that as a credit to the staff and to John moore and the community appreciates their efforts. So let me turn this over to John.

>> I would like to introduce --

>> I think rich is right, staff has done an outstanding job and has been recognized for it. The important thick is it deals with children and helps them to stay in school. I work for the criminal justice for the diocese of Austin, we are less likely to see them if they stay in school. What we get in the criminal justice system is school dropouts. This community education program is an essential element, we are very grateful to the City Council for having recognized that. It's important for these children, this is one of the ways to get the community involved because it's very difficult to get the community involved in things for its own good. This is one of the great programs that does it. John and the staff have done an outstanding job.

>> Thank you. Just briefly before I go, the city of Austin has many fine traditions, community education now in its 25th year is one of those traditions. It was started through a division of -- through the vision of persons like Gus Garcia, carol rylander and has continued with the leadership of our Mayor and people like Jackie Goodman. Just getting older is not enough. Hi a milestone birthday recently, we have all gotten older, but what I am most proud of in community education is the fact that we are doing the type of services that dukes just described. So behalf of the staff I would like to you all to get up here and get recognized. They have been with the program about 25 years, we want to thank you for this honor.

>>Garcia: thank you all, Mayor, back to you. Now for some music. Tejano is a show oriented band with members singing and dancing with a wide varied of music. Formed in 1989, the band consists of paco rodriguez, paco junior, friend David ortega, they played night clubs in the early teens and now tour all across the country. They won the third annual kunjuto competition in 1994 and have since had several releases, I am pleased today -- come on up. I am pleased to proclaim and say be it known that november 19th, 1998, as alma tejana day in Austin. And I call on all citizens to join me in recognizing the many outstanding contributions by the local music community toward the development of Austin's social, economic and cultural diversity and in recognizing the dedicated efforts of artists which further Austin's status as the live music capital of the world, signed Kirk Watson, Mayor of the City of Austin. I am happy to welcome alma tejana, if you will step up here play for us. [Applause]

>> we would like to play something traditional, our roots, going back to our roots. Okay. [Music playing] (music playing) (Music)
(Music)
thank you very much, we are honored to be here this afternoon, thank you to the Mayor, to Gus. to everybody else.

>>Mayor Watson: would you please rise and join with us in our invocation which is to be presented today by the pastor emerald ray of the christian center assembly of god church, pastor if you would please come forward, thank you very much for being with us.

>> Dear god, and our heavenly father, we come before you with prayer and thanksgiving. Recognizing in your word that you have declared yourself to be the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end. And yet you gave us the privilege of having individually ies and collective wills by which we may have the opportunity of accomplishing your purposes in life. We could not fulfill these purposes without your help. But we recognize by that great law giver of the old testament moses that you made yourself very present to him when you said you were to him and I am. We recognize that means that today you are present. We ask again that you will help us in the making of decisions. That we shall be able to accomplish that which will be pleasing to your eyes. We pray for the Council activities of this day and may it be that as a result of our having met together, that you are pleased with our activities. In your name we pray, amen.

>>Mayor Watson: amen, pastor ray, thank you for being with us. I call to order the Austin city Council for a regular meeting of the City Council, it is thursday, november 19th, 1998. We are meeting at the City Council chambers at 307 west second street. Let me read corrections to the agenda. Item no. 7, ... It should read was forwarded to Council without a recommendation by the Council committee for telecommunications infrastructure. Item no. 11 Should read: approve an ordinance consenting to the transfer of control of csw/icg choicecom, lp, no fiscal impact. Recommended by Council committee for telecommunications infrastructure. Item 3 1, approve ratification of an amendment to the professional services contract with hilgers and watkins should read: in the amount of attorney fees by up to $3,700. Item 35, zoning case c 14980091, should read: Griffith and Spelman voting know. 54 Should read.

>>: Approve an ordinance adopting a strategic plan agreement with the anderson mill mult district, et cetera. Adopt a recess solution to release approximately 720 acres of Austin's extra territorial jurisdiction to the City of jonestown. Items on the addendum, item no. 76, Approve settlement in hidden oaks limited partnership versus the City of Austin, cause number 95 ca 834 ss in the United States district. 77 Approve settlement in tide land limited partnership versus City of Austin, cause number 9759241 in the united states bankruptcy court in the northern district of california. Items set for a time certain, 4:30 zoning items, 40 through 48. 6:00 P.m., item no. 49, Related to the village of western oaks. 6:30 P.m., public hearing on full purpose annexation -- excuse me -- of pond springs multi family area, ranch to market road 620 right-of-way, park phase c akin tract, lone star tract, brodie springs area, pond springs commercial area and howard lane industrial tract, item no. 50. 6:45, Item no. 51, A public hearing on limited purpose annexation of the galloway tract. Item no. 52, 7:00, A public hearing on strategic partnership agreement with anderson mill. Item no. 53, At 7:30 p.m. A public hearing for the full purpose annexation of harris branch. If there are Council members that can hear me, I need at least one more to come out so we will have a quorum. Item no. 1 Is approval of the minutes of the regular meetings for november 4th and 5th, 1998, I will entertain a motion. Motion made by Councilmember Griffith, seconded by to approve the minutes of the meeting of november 4th and 5th, 1998, any discussion? hearing none, all those in favor say aye., opposed say no., motion carries with Councilmember Garcia the Mayor pro tem City Councilmember Lewis off the dias. Item no. 2, The next item is citizens communication, we have the first three speakers are richard charred Troxell, Gus pena and richard knowlton. Mr. Troxell? welcome, sir.

>> Thank you, sir.

>> My name is Richard Troxell, president of house the homeless, board members of the national coalition of house of homeless, civil rights violations against the homeless citizens of Austin, homeless are black, white, hispanic, men, women, children, poor people, people in spite of working can't change the living situation because twice the minimum wage is what it takes to get a one bedroom apartment here in Austin. Almost two years ago, City Council ruined the lives of these people bypassing the no camping homeless ordinance and turning them into criminal sleepers. We fine them $220 or two days in jail, now there's a push to enhance this ordinance and to fine them $2,000 and six months in jail and jail mill of arrest and return to the streets with no jobs, no housing, only to be arrested again and again. A waste of police, court and human resources. And now, now there's an effort to create a special court, a community court, where repeat offenders go before a judge who will offer the door on the left which will be jail or he will offer the door on the right with inadequate social services. We say provide adequate social services and we will gladly use them voluntarily. And now there is a special day labor committee that has recommended the passage of an ordinance to restrict a person's right to seek work in any area other than a specifically designated area. The current vision is for a fenced in work pen, we say create a good jobs program that doesn't exclude the homeless and we will gladly come. We also say pay a fair living wage and we will beat a path to your door. And now, now there is a zoning overlay committee whose recommendations will be to ultimately restrict additional as much ass to the homeless after the new resource center is built. Note the capacity will be only 250 persons for the population needs of 6,000. And now -- now according to the paper the Austin review, the Austin downtown alliance has passed a resolution withholding its "approval" for the resource center, only after key law enforcement and community initiatives are adopted by the City. Who is it that is conspiring against the homeless? who is it that is negotiating away the civil rights of the homeless? of the poorest and the least among us? who is it that is trading away the civil rights, their civil rights to travel freely, to seek work, the tax paying citizens that we are? house the homeless calls upon city Council to immediately launch an investigation and to stop this abuse of our poorest citizens. We call for the repeal of the No Camping Ordinance. We call upon you to house the homeless, not to punish them. Thank you. [Applause]

>>Mayor Watson: Gus pena, followed by richard knowlton and then Robert thomas.

>> Good afternoon, Mr. Mayor, Mayor pro tem Goodman. Gus pena president of east Austin concerned hispanics. When I ran for Council at different forums we candidates, Daryl, you were there, Beverly, willie, Mayor, were asked what we would do to hold the City staff and administration accountable. You all each pledged that accountability is paramount in having a good City government and having it run efficiently. That has been compromised by the negotiation negotiation team. They have not gun -- goggio & associates team. They have not been held accountable. As a matter of fact it has gone from good to worse. Mayor pro tem Goodman you asked pointed questions of their team that I was not able to attend. They could not answer and merely dodged the questions and vaguely attempted to answer questions regarding the operations of the health clinic. At the Travis County commissioners court this past tuesday, goggio & associates team again appeared before the county commissioners daughter and -- court and were asked appropriate and inquisitive questions. Again goggio & associates attempted vaguely to respond to the questions posed and did a bad job of it. Is this appropriate spending of the City funning and not being able to held accountable for lack of response? is this propose, Mr. City manager, East Austin concerned hispanics feels that a fult audit should be done of the goggio & associates consultant team. Do your job, Mr. City Manager, and hold them accountable for the lack of response, lack of response to the community and lack of moving the clinics forward and improving the situation over there. This last handout that was given to us, it states: every effort will be made to work with patients who are unable to pay. But some patients may be asked to reschedule their appointment. Not acceptable. If a person goes over there, you are telling me that a person will not be seen due to inability to pay, they have to reschedule their appointments? read this handout. This will tell you that position of the health chrirngs has been compromised. That is not acceptable. Mr. Mayor, when I advocate for people who are not able to pay their utility bills, I called the electric utility company, and I said, look, you didn't even give these people a 24 hour door hanger or courtesy. I said Mayor Watson appeared on television stating this was going to be done. They told me, you tell the Mayor he ought to sponsor a resolution on this issue. The employees name is anita, we are not given the last name. This is unacceptable. People's utilities have been cut off, shot off, without 24 hour notice, that is unacceptable, we are coming upon the wintertime? who is going to suffer? indigent, poor, have-nots again. That is not acceptable. Please do something. I called jill and I believe she has been doing something on it. Mr. City Manager, hold the consultant accountable, do your job. We supported you in the past, respectfully, professionally, I will do it again, but do your job, thank you very much. [Applause]

>>Mayor Watson: richard knowlton, Robert thomas. Richard knowlton? Mr. Thomas, if you would come forward. Ms. Castenada, if you will come forward, too. You will follow Mr. Thomas.

>> Thank you, Mayor Watson. Mayor pro tem Garcia and members of the Council. I am honored to speak with you today kirng the rosewood park and recreation department. I am Robert l. Tom of the building and construction trades department of the labor of international unions of north america and Texas and Austin AFL-CIO, I am also representing our varsities in the national football league. World football league and american football association. I am the advisory counsel from the internationals for their renovation project of the 1987 administration active office building at rosewood recreation City and up and coming central City entertainment center. I had spoken to you Mr. Garza in concerning relations and problems that we are having at rosewood concerning employment and -- of professional athletes there. Also in the last meeting I talked to one of your aides, he informed me that he would request that the park director, Jesus olivera call me concerning the rosewood recreation center and straimt. I waited for him to call but he never called back. I know it's unfair down there. I tell you we worked hard to establish the land so that the health and recreational activities that will come to be will be something for everybody to enjoy. The central City entertainment center is coming along well. The contractor that worked have diligently helped us build the center. Which bring goes us to our decision, we have decided, Mr. Garza, on the termination of oliveres. Jesus has done so many things wrong, he has harmed us in trying to get jobs, he has not helped us with our agencies, we worked hard to bring these contractors at rosewood and we want working athletes. Athletes is -- the management there, he should move. The decade of the '70s, so much gang activities from him, violence, crime up there, a couple of killings. These managers they have got to move from the parks because they do nothing to help us work as athletes. We did acknowledge the organized builders to construct the answerment. The central City entertainment center took $$8 million. It took many years of building and athletic performance to bring these builders in, we get nothing from them. I would like for you, Mr. Garza, to speak with oliveraez. I don't think -- there's not enough from Council to bring these sinners up there. You have to take to these managers, they won't help us with xloup. Mayor Watson, at least by december we should hear the results of it. [Buzzer sounding].

>>Mayor Watson: thank you, Mr. Thomas.

>> All right then.

>>Mayor Watson: diana castenada followed by mark harris.

>> Thank you, it's almost year end, but here at year end on october 30th -- I'm sorry, 31st, on halloween night there was a party in my neighborhood. None of the neighbors knew that this party was going to be happening, it was sponsored by welders that are in a building that's located with victory canza, an outreach program. What happened was there was a charging at the door, no permits issued for alcohol, no permits issued for music, parking or any of the other ordinances that are required when you have a party where you charge admission. And so I called the police because we were uninformed and because there was a lot of music and a lot of traffic in my neighborhood. As it turned out this party was sponsored by the welders in their building and many kids that were not from my neighborhood were at this party. They were mostly anglo children that were being given beer for $5 a pop. And there were tickets being sold to them in order to do that. I called the police. One officer came out, officer jones. He's the only one that attended to over 100 students or kids being there. And other people that may have been selling drugs. The problem that I have with this is that he didn't call for backup. The excuse was from him and his superiors were that they were all at halloween on sixth street. I checked with the superior this week that finally called after two weeks with Bill Spelman's support to tell me that there was coverage that night he could have gotten backup support. There was girls pulling their dresses and urinatedding in our front yards, there were people construing beer bottles all over the place. Strewing beer bottles all over the place, no ticket were issued because it was the first offense and police officers jones was using his best judgment. I thought you hired these not to use best judgment but to enforce the law. When we all get a ticket, they are enforcing the law. It cannot be selective. I finally saw Chief Knee because I have made several phone calls to his office, I ran into him as he saluted Gus pena on his way out. I have an appointment with him next week. But the point is that we have got to do something more comprehensive because let me tell you, there is selectivity in how the law is enforced and in which neighborhood. I know you all had hearings about this last week, but none were done in hispanic east Austin, none were done in dove springs. There wasn't enough publicity in advance for these kind of things. My sons when we lived on parker line, a nice neighborhood on parker lane, off of woodland, they used to get stopped because they didn't look like they belonged there. Now tell me, there's something wrong when our police don't follow our ordinances, when they selectively enforce whatever laws they choose to enforce. [Buzzer sounding].

>> And I would like your support.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you.

>> I would like your support in looking into this.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you very much.

>> Mr. Mark harris.

>> I am mark harris, the chairman of the Austin district Council of the urban land institute I am here today to briefly tell you about the national smart growth conference which we will be hosting here in Austin in december. Specifically the 13th through the 17th of december. The smoet conference is responsed -- smart growth is sponsored by the urban land institute and epa. Also save our springs alliance, capital metro, universities of Texas, dell and seton hospital amongst others. Uli briefly is a national organization, non-partisan, made up of developers, of professionals from the legal profession, architecture, public from the -- people from the public sector. 13,000 Members in total, its purposes are education -- research and education into proper land use. As to smart growth and this specific conference, it is a for custom that we hope will shift the debate away from anti-growth or no growth and recognize the roll role that the development community plays in maintaining and improving our communities. It will be a forum to explore best practices, mistakes made in other communities, and lessons learned from around the nation. It's an opportunity for us to build consensus and cultural agreement in favor of a new behavioral model. And public policy model that we have the confidence to go forward with. Finally, it seems to identify common ground where developers and environmentalists all can find ways to accommodate growth that is acceptable to each of us. I think we are all aware of the growth we are experiencing and expected to experience in the next 20 years and smart growth and this conference should help us identify the best ways to deal with those issues. My appeal to you as Council is to become active cheerleaders in our behalf. And communicate with your constituencies about this conference, its importance and what can be learned from it. I also would like to encourage your participation in the conference and members of your staff's participation in the conference. Officially, there are a number of things going on in the community, we have a wonderful display right now at the children's museum, we have reached out in preparation for this conference to the school system and to young people to experience what is called visual preference. The children can go through the museum and select what kind of community they would like to live in. We are going to be collecting this information and utilizing it at the conference. [Buzzer sounding] thank you for your time.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you, Mr. Harris. Those are all of the people that have signed up to speak. Appreciate your work on this. Next item will be adoption of the consent agenda. Let me read to you what would be on the consent agenda. If you have pulled an item or wish to -- pulled an item that can go back on the consent agenda, please let me know. If you wish to pull an item that I read as being on the consent agenda, please let me know that, also. The consent agenda would be 11, 12, 13, 15, 16, 17, 19, 20, 21, 25, 26, 30, 31, 32, 34, 37, 38, and 75. Sorry, one other, item 68. Item 68 will also be on the consent agenda, I will read -- item no. 75, I will read those once we determine the entire consent agenda. Are there items that can be pulled or placed back on?

>>Lewis: I would like to pull items 12 and 16, I have a question on those two.

>>Mayor Watson: all right, 12 and 16.

>>Slusher: Mayor? I would put no. 18 Back on.

>>Mayor Watson: Councilmember Garcia?

>>Garcia: if we could put item no. 7 Back on the consent agenda for a two week postponement.

>>Mayor Watson: 7 back on a two week postponement. There has been some discussion about that. The idea would be that during that two week period to address some of the concerns of the way the computers are purchased, we would identify a matrix that would identify various staff level positions and needs of those staff level positions in our organization so that we would know that we are buying just what we need for that position as opposed to needing -- buying more than we need for that position across the organizational levels. Did I say that?

>>Garcia: and the City Manager can look at the tape of the telecommunications meeting last tuesday, Councilmember Goodman, Councilmember Spelman and I had some questions that were responsed to by staff. I think they lay out some of the issues.

>> Maybe not a formal matrix, but there is about what kind of equipment would go where.

>>Lewis: I would also like to see some process that we use for disposition of replacement equipment of computers and different types of equipment. Because I have found when you ask people what do you do with it, nobody seems to know.

>> We have responded to Councilmember Spelman's question about a year ago with respect to that, I will update that and get that to you.

>>Lewis: I think the staff needs to be aware of it, also, because I have a piece of equipment in my office that no one can tell me what I am supposed to do with it. They have told me, but I don't want to do it.

>>Mayor Watson: number 7 back on for auto two week postponement. Any other items that need to be pulled or added back to the consent agenda? Councilmember Lewis?

>>Lewis: no.

>>Mayor Watson: item no. 7 Two week postponement. Here's the consent agenda, 7, 11, 13, 14, 15, 17, 19, 20, 21, 25, 26, 30, 31, 32, 34, 37, 38, item no. 68 In the amount of $155,000, and item no. 75. Let me read into the record those appointments. To the arts commission, Bruce walinsek, a reappointment by Councilmember Slusher. Child care Council, jimmy jones, by Councilmember Lewis, deborah keith thompson by consensus, commission on immigrant affairs. All of these are by consensus, chavez, barbara heinz, jennifer kim, maria loyla, sister an mcguin, patell, simon pam make. On the commission for women, ruth parshall. Design commission edgar ferrera, reappointment by Mayor Watson. Downtown commission, by the way, on the downtown commission all of these will be consensus: elaine carter, parks and recreation board rep, stan hass reappointment, perry lorenz, reappointment, design commission. Gene mather, Bill mellaina, Chamber of Commerce, theresa ravago, history landmark commission representative, michael zakes, urban transportation representative. E.m.s. Transition team: these are all by consensus. Diane dimwitty, bettie dunkerly, dave eaton, engineer with e.m.s. Station design, sue edwards, City of Austin e.m.s. Director, mike howl, a representative of the incorporated cities, Dr. Donald patted trick, e.m.s. Quality assurance team representative, Dr. Edward rock, an -- the e.m.s. Medical director, christian smith, the Travis County financial director, ed stroud, an e.m.s. Employee association representative, ethics review commission, samuel luughlin, nomination by Mayor Watson. Rich bailey, reappointment by Mayor Watson. Sammy glasco, reappointment by Councilmember Lewis. James hill, reappointment by consensus, resource management commission: itekai, by Councilmember Garcia, coon by Councilmember Goodman. Solid waste advisory commission, scott pasternak, ... Travis central appraisal district, eleanor pal. Councilmember Slusher I don't think you read 18. I put that one back on.

>>Mayor Watson: you are right. I marked it but didn't read it. 18 Would also be part of the consent agenda. Motion made by Councilmember Lewis to adopt the consent agenda as red. Seconded by.

>>Spelman:. We have people signed up.

>> Did you have 14 as consent?

>>Mayor Watson: I did not. Some people have signed up to speak. I will call out their names and ask them to come up and address the various items. Item no. 19. Bill bunch. Bill bunch. Signed up on no. 19 Against. Thomas w lowry on item no. 32.

>> Mr. Mayor, Mayor pro tem. Ladies and gentlemen of the Council. I am tom lowry, president of the upper bull creek neighborhood association. I appreciate this opportunity to talk briefly with you once again about the zoning of the 11 acres on old lampasas trail. As you know, old lampasas trail runs the lerchts of the upper bull creek valley. Length. This is a ruler neighborhood with five acre lot minimums. This land serves as the gateway to the City of Austin bull creek nature preserve and provides a transition zone between the more densely developed lots up on top of the ridge to the north and the five acre lots or larger on the south. As I stated in the september 10th hearing before you, the residents in this area have been willing to compromise. And we agree to accept the Planning Commission two and a half acre compromise recommendation. The facts are these, 9 or 11 houses built near the road on this steep land do not fit into the rural character of this neighborhood. The City Planning Commission studied this property and recommended two and a half acre minimum lots. Three adjacent neighborhood associations, including one that signed on just this week, and the bull creek foundation, oppose any density of development more than two and a half acre minimum lots. By the way, those neighborhood associations are, the northwest balcones homeowners association, the upper bull creek neighborhood association, and the 2222 coalition of neighborhood associations. All 45 of the adjacent property owners support the Planning Commission compromise recommendation. You have a copy of the september 26th petition with these 45 signatures, there's no runoff problem from land on the south side of old lampasas trail. But there are significant runoff problems throughout the entirety of the subject tract north of old lampasas trail. I know because I live there. Prior to annexation, travis county commissioner karen sonleitner denied the owner permission to develop this land based on runoff problems. Actually the owner had more opportunity to develop this land since annexation than prior to it. My neighbors and I hope that you will join us in protecting the upper bull creek valley, the water, the Austin water quality zone, and the rural character of this neighborhood. This should be rather simple. There is no opposition to the Planning Commission recommendation except the landowner. The neighborhood and citizens have spoken, please accept the Planning Commission compromise without any further postponement.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you, Mr. Lowry.

>>Slusher: I wanted to clarify it. It is the Planning Commission recommendation that is on the consent agenda.

>>Mayor Watson: I want to make sure that's clear. Mess glasco.

>> Yeah, it is.

>>Mayor Watson: I think that's right. There was confusion, so I wanted to make sure.

>>.

>>Mayor Watson: sam tarkington.

>> Thank you, Mayor, Councilmembers. I am sam talkington. I live adjacent to the land which the applicant is trying to develop. I spoke yesterday with engineering of storm water and management division and it was jose guerro. Also with mahi vigil and randall gather and two independent hydrologists, tom lumas and ed moore and Charles woodruff. Each one of these people did tell me that what is proposed as the tanks that on paper they would work. However, not one of these people would suggest that they think that they should be approved. There were various reasons they gave for that. In regards to the two acres of land in which the applicant is proposing to give you, it's lots 2 and 3. When you look at that, that means lot 1 will also now be able to drain into lots 2 and 3 so that we have 4 drainage that's coming across my property. There's about six acres of streets and houses that also drain across this road into my property. There is no filtration in their plans whatsoever are so I receive all of the debris, oils and everything else into my place. I just feel like that -- that -- that we should stay with the two and a half as Planning Commission had suggested. And I certainly do hope you support that. Thank you very much.

>> I don't know if Council has had a chance to read the correspondence that I delivered to your office earlier this week, I would like to say that based on the engineering data, the talk about the drainage impact from this particular project is way over blown, this is a minimums skul increase in the drainage over the natural condition, miniscule. As far as the tank thing, the people don't want us to have a design that's more environmentally sensitive, more aesthetically pleasing fine, but the drainage could be handled by normal surface detention feature like it could be anywhere else. If you don't like the tanks on nine hows, you shouldn't like it on three either, I don't understand what the issue is there. The off-site drainage that you have asked us to address, that -- there is a lot of drainage coming from the s.f. 2 Neighborhood above us. A lot of water from up there. That's not a problem. That's a problem that you have asked us to address. We didn't create it. We don't benefit from addressing it, but we are willing to do that. It's lots one and two by the way which would be dead indicated assist a drainage facility. Dedicated as a drainage facility. I guess in conclusion, I don't know what else to say, but I have never seen anybody offer to do so much just to get your most restrictive single family residential zoning classification which is rural residential. In fact not to get it, to hold on to it, that's what we have now is the interim rural residential. We are willing to do all of this just to get your most restricted classification,able that you really are buying the argument that we are supposed to be compatible with the five acre lots across it is streets, which are exemption lots which I have explained to you many times, they are really not buildable five acres, they are really about an acre and a half,able that you would not find it unreasonable and discriminatory to make the person in the middle of the skpemgs lots and s.f. 2 Neighborhood have the largest lots out there in terms of buildable areas. One of the most discriminatory things that I have seen. I would like to introduce our engineering study on the drainage.

>>Goodman: yes, thank you. Getting dettman, in favor and not speaking. Warren Johnson.

>> I am warren Johnson, I am representing the northwest balcones association number 2 subdivision, we are the subdivision immediately to north and we abutt the subject property and we urge your approval of the plan commission and the two and a half acre site thank you.

>> Thank you. Suzanne talkington. In favor and for the speaking. Thank you. Those are all of the speakers. On item no. 32. And the item is the planning commission's recommendation. And it is a consent item, so it's not pulled unless anybody wants to pull it right now. There is one speaker signed up for what was a consent item, which is number 36. Robin, is robin still here? pardon? it was on consent, we just pulled it. If he is around, the reason we pulled it was to talk about amending lamar. On to it. Mary gay maxwell on item no. 38. Mary gay maxwell. She signed up against approving conservation easements to the balcones canyon land conservation plan for the s.o.s. Alliance. Janet hampel. Also opposed to conservation easements in the bcp. From s.o.s.. Bill bunch. Against number 38, which was the same, a provision for conservation easements as an addition to bcp lands. Somebody was signed up for 18? I don't have a card.

>>Mayor Watson: I do. Bill bunch. Bill bunch. He is signed up against item no. 18. Mr. Pena, if you will please come forward.

>> Gus pena, president of east Austin concerned hispanics. I understand no. 18, I have been reading the backup, m.o.u. Between the City of Austin, Travis County and board. Designate a management contractor as program director of the fqhc center. We have a big difference of opinions with this understanding. Again I spoke about it on citizens communication. These should be the objectives of the health clinic, goggio & associates team, number one, to improve access to care, increase the quality of -- quality of care, raise patient safpgs, improve cost effectiveness, not hurt the clients or users of the health services in the process, positively impact the health status of the patient population. Again Mayor, Mayor pro tem, City Manager Garza, we are demanding accountability. We feel that has not occurred. You are going to give them, approve an resolution or the m.o.u., I will respect testimonily request all of you all hold this consultant team accountable for not doing their job and spending the money not wisely and inappropriately and not in the best interests of the users and clients of the City of Austin health clinics. I think it's about time that you all remember the promises and pledges that you all made to the taxpayers and the constituents of the City of Austin. Please hold them accountable if you are going to sign this memorandum. We feel very strongly that that team is not doing what it's supposed to be doing. Beverly Griffith, hold them accountable. Mayor pro tem thank for you the pointed questions, I know judge Aleshire and recently elected county commissioner ron davis asked some questions that goggio & associates team could not answer. Very embarrassing, unprofessional, and not acceptable. Do this in and for the best interests of the indigent people, the people who utilize the health clinics. Don't damage them any further. Help them out and help us out and hold them accountable. Thank you all very much.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you, Mr. Pena. 7 For a two week postponement. 11, 3, 15, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 25, 26, 30, 31, 32, 34, 37, 38, 68 In the amount of $155,000, and item no. 75 As read. Motion has been made and seconded.

>>Lewis: item no. 27 Is -- I request it will be pulled for two weeks as a consent item.

>>Mayor Watson: you want to put it back on consent but postpone it for two weeks.

>> Based on what I got told I may not put this back on.

>>Lewis: I mean today. It's on consents today.

>> I understand. I want to pull it off the agenda based on what I heard today. I may want the department to do something differently. I need to get with the department to determine whether we need to do that or not. 27 And 28 need to be pulled.

>>Mayor Watson: let me ask this -- here's what I think I heard. 27 To be put wack on the consent agenda. Back on the consent agenda. But motion would be to postpone it for a two week period which would allow to you do what it is that you need to do.

>>Lewis: correct. I made the motion.

>>Mayor Watson: hang on a second. Who made the motion?

>>Lewis: I did.

>>Mayor Watson: Councilmember Lewis made the motion, Councilmember Spelman seconded it, do you consider that to be a friendly amendment?

>>Spelman: yes, I do.

>>Mayor Watson: with that item no. 27 Would go back on the consent agenda for a postponement of two weeks. Is there any other discussion?

>>Garcia: 39, I didn't -- I didn't see --.

>>Mayor Watson: I pulled 39.

>>Mayor Watson: any other items. Hearing none, all those in favor say aye. Opposed say no. Motion carries. Council, item no. 8 Was voted on yesterday's agenda and has been pulled. Council, I will entertain a motion to recess to go into executive session the purpose to discussion acquisition or lease of property in the downtown area for City offices under the real property exception under Texas government code section 551.072, is there a motion?

>>Spelman: so moved.

>>Slusher: second.

>>Mayor Watson: motion made by Councilmember Spelman, seconded by Councilmember Slusher to go into executive session. Any discussion? hearing none, all those in favor say aye. Opposed say no., motion carries, we will recess into executive session. Test test this is a test test test this is a test, test test. This is a test.

>>Lewis: Mayor, I move approval on that. I just wanted to make a statement.

>>Mayor Watson: all right. Let me get a statement. The motion has been made to approve item no. Nine. I'll recognize Councilmember Lewis for discussion.

>>Lewis: I would like to get a report and it doesn't have to be part of the motion, but get a report by sometime next december as to what type of equipment and what perceived benefits we received from the purchasing of this. As to what we -- you know, what perceived benefit we're getting from this, what type of equipment we bought for the fire department and the police. I don't see any consistency to that. I know something is here someplace.

>>Mayor Watson: he's getting it.

>>Lewis: but just the report in the next 12 -- after 12 months, or whenever the money is spent, whichever comes soonest as to what happened.

>>Mayor Watson: okay. The motion has been made and seconded. Is there any discussion? hearing none, all those in favor say aye. Opposed say no. Motion carries on item no. Nine. Item no. 10, I'll recognize Councilmember Lewis.

>>Lewis: item no. 10 Has been explained. I had questions about the street cuts, but I move approval.

>>Mayor Watson: motion has been made and seconded by Councilmember Spelman. Is there any discussion. Hearing none, all those in favor say aye. Opposed say no. Motion carries on item no. 12. Item no. 12, -- Carries on item no. 10. Item no. 12, Councilmember Lewis.

>>Lewis: I move approval to item no. 12.

>>Mayor Watson: motion has been made for approval of item no. 12. Oppose said no. Motion carries on 12. Take us to item no. 14. I'll recognize Councilmember Lewis.

>>Lewis: my question is, and I guess betty was here someplace but she didn't have time to completety answer it, but I was there last year and they have a vehicle that the City purchased. In fact, I guess the police department purchased it for the City out of drug confiscated money, which we don't have that problem, for 165,000 dollars. And I'm trying to figure out in the long run, looking in the long run, since we're paying $100,000 a year, would it be more economical for us to look at maybe purchasing a truck or doing something that -- unless we're going to determine some way to stop it, then we don't need it.

>> Yes. We currently do have three vehicles that are on the road that are cleaning grafitti that don't specifically clean the buildings that's City property, but we do clean all other right-of-ways, signs and eng bank embankments and private property and private owners to help them clean up the property. We do have the machinery they have in el paso. It's not the equivalent of big vehicles, but we do have equipment that we use on a daily basis that goes out and cleans properties.

>>Lewis: do we -- in el paso they use baking soda is the solution. The witness: we use --.

>> We use strictly water and chemicals and we recover those chemicals when we clean.

>>Lewis: well, that was my question just looking at the amount of money that we're spending, it was whether or not it would be more economical to do something different. I move approval of item 14.

>>Mayor Watson: is there a second? seconded by Councilmember Spelman. Any discussion? hearing none, all those in favor say aye. Oppose said no. Motion carries. Item no. 16. Councilmember Lewis? I'm sorry, is barry woods here? barry woods? he is taken care of?

>>Lewis: item no. 16, My question is in the backup it says that the project was then declared an emergency. Could you just explain that briefly to me?

>> yes, sir. Peter riek, director of public works and transportation. We have on lower levels -- we have ornaments on the side walls of the parking garage. Some of these tires on the lower levels have come loose and fallen off the walls. We are concerned about tiles off the upper levels of the garage coming down and injuring a passing pedestrian or vehicle, so we felt it was important to not waste any time, move forward with this repair as quickly as we could after the issue was identified. That is the reason why I treated this as an emergency and assigned the emergency affidavit, which then in turn raised our regular purchases and procedures and allowed us to have an brief 80ed contracting process.

>>Lewis: well, the reason -- what really caught my attention is due to the emergency rebid effort, no mwbe goals was established and no compliance plan was required because -- I'm trying to determine what length of time is added to establish an m.b.e. Goal or was it one established in the original bid?

>> well, in this case the contractor is going to perform all the work. There are no subcontracting opportunities, but typically in this circumstance, to tell you the truth, I would have said since we bid this project out before, although not successful, if there were any mwbe requirements, we could have just included them, however, it does take additional time for the bidder to contact all mwbe firms on the list and that's the time critical element that is basically addressed by waiving those requirements.

>>Lewis: well, due to the amount of the contract, I guess it's insignificant anyway. I move approval of item no. 16. Seconded by Councilmember Lewis. Motion has been made by Councilmember Lewis, seconded by Councilmember Spelman, any discussion? hearing none, all those in favor say aye. Oppose said no. Moertion carries on item no. 16. That will take us to items 22, 23, 24. I'll recognize Councilmember Slusher?

>>Lewis: what happened to item 18?

>>Mayor Watson: item 18 was put back on the consent agenda by Councilmember Slusher.

>>Slusher: Mayor, on these items, the -- these are the Downtown Austin Alliance. The budget includes a 25,000 dollar contribution from capital metro and to continue to -- for metro to do that contribution would be insignificant with the state comptroller's recommendation and therefore that wasn't included in the budget. And capital metro is looking at ways to better serve downtown in cooperation then at the rems of the downtown Austin alliance and the agency feels that would be a better way to cooperate with the Downtown Austin Alliance and to serve downtown through this 25,000 dollar contribution. So Mr. Crieder or Mr. Bets, does someone wanted -- can we deal with this?

>> yes, thank you. We will work with the dpchlt aa and administratively address the surplus plan and budget that you're about to approve to make that reduction along the lines of what's -- what the daa would suggest.

>>Slusher: okay. So that would be on no. 24 That they would subtract that $25,000 out of the budget amount?

>> yes, sir, that's correct.

>>Slusher: okay. Well, I move approval with that addition.

>>Mayor Watson: all right, motion has been made, is there a second? seconded by Councilmember Griffith.

>>Griffith: can I make a quick comment? capital metro, and I spoke with management this morning, is very, very supportive of downtown and working closely with the downtown folks on the circulater. This request by Councilmember Slusher and myself to make this financial change is in response to the audit that we've undergone, and this is a thing that we're not going to be able to do any more in terms of contributions and donations. We just want to reiterate our commitment to downtown, to the circulater, to more and better service for your customers and your landowners and we're just going to be doing it a different way. I hope that's okay.

>>Mayor Watson: motion has been made and seconded on 22, 23, and 24, with 24 having the subtraction of the 25,000 dollar item. I recognize Councilmember Garcia.

>>Garcia: just a quick question for Mr. Crieder.

>>Mayor Watson: Mr. Crieder, could you come forward?

>>Garcia: on item 24 it says that one of the revenue items is interest accrued on the pid account. How big is that account?

>> I believe last year's budget was 760 thousand dollars, but last year we calculated it at 96% collection rate and as those collections above that 96% come in, we always pass on the interest earnings and unappropriated collections to the daa in the next year's budget.

>>Garcia: what is the purpose of the pid account?

>> it's a special account that the assessments go into that is used to fund the service plan and budget of the Downtown Austin Alliance.

>>Garcia: so the the excesses are outside accumulating there?

>> yes, sir. The reason we do a collection rate below 100% is there are several downtown properties that will continue in dispute with the appraisal district and so we're very conservative about that, so we don't have to reduce the daa budget and we've carried typically that account over into their next year's fund.

>>Garcia: would the 25,000 come out of that?

>> no, sir.

>>Garcia: why not?

>> that's the assessment account. The $25,000 has always gone directly to the -- passed through to the daa, passed through that special account.

>>Garcia: I guess I'm not getting my question across. What's the purpose of accumulating money in the pid account?

>> again, the pid account covers the quarterly payment thas we make to the daa over the course of their year. Their year starts in may. You approve it now, but if starts in may. So we have that account and we disperse quarterly payments based on the budget you approve with the exception of those funds that are pass odd next year, which are the additional funds.

>>Garcia: so does the City own the pid account?

>> yes, sir. We have a special account and you authorize the renewal each year.

>>Garcia: so thakt is the property of the City?

>> yes, sir. It's the property of the City, however, the assessments are from the special assessments that the property owners have approved in addition to their regular property tax. Far gar thank you.

>>Lewis: Mayor, let me ask you a question. You said that the year starts in may.

>> Yes, sir.

>>Lewis: why the difference in the fiscal year?

>> if I recall back six, seven years ago, eight years ago I guess now it's been since we've had the pid, the year -- their fiscal year starts in may, but when we started it, Council wanted to approve everything in december so that when the property owners can get the assessment notice with a regular tax bill.

>>Lewis: okay. Just one other question. I notice in -- it was answered partly on item no. 22, There's a lot of property that's shown as being owned by -- other than public entity as far as I can determine. It may be used for non-proflts, but -- that it's carrying a zero value, either on land value or improvement value. So I'm just wondering why is it that we show -- we'll show a zero value on the land and at 723 Congress, that is at 823 Congress?

>> I believe, based on the appraisal district, you should have a in your back up a statement. There's a property owned by a tax kpeement or anization and the land value is zero, however, they lease that property to office buildings or whatever and improvements are taxed.

>>Lewis: all right. Well, you know, here's one owned by the City of Austin and it shows an improvement value of two million. Is that taxed?

>> it would be based on my discussions with art corey, there are some tax values on that property. And again, this is the list that we have from the travis appraisal district.

>>Lewis: well, you know, that was my question because if the city has a zero tax value and -- unless we're leasing the building, unless we're leasing the building, why would we -- why would there be a value on there?

>> according to Mr. Corey, there wouldn't be.

>> I don't know about this particular building, but let's take, for example, one Texas center, a building that we own, there is taxable value in that building because the motorola component will be paying property taxes, and that may be what you're seeing here.

>>Lewis: well, on one american center, is that the one you're saying?

>> no, I said one Texas City.

>>Lewis: okay. Thank you, that's all.

>>Mayor Watson: motion has been made and seconded on item 22, 23, and twor to approve. Is there any discussion. Hearing hearing motion carries on those three items. That will take us to item 28 and 29. I'll recognize Councilmember Spelman.

>>Spelman: Mayor, I had some questions of the police department on the reassignment and they've been answered and so I move approval a all three read lgs.

>>Mayor Watson: motion has been made and seconded by Councilmember Spelman to approve on all three readings on 28 and 29. One person is signed up to speak. Mr. Mcginnis. He told me that he was unable to be here and please read the back of his card. Again I see more money being allocated to the police department with the only purpose to increase the harassment of the poor people, mainly minorities, poor people, I would like to see more of the taxpayer money put to better use to providing more jobs, education, housing and opportunities, under lined, to the poor people in Austin, and automatically the crime rate will decrease by itself, unless it is good business to arrest and fine people. Let me ask another question. I have have a number of people signed up on no. 29 And I assume there is a mistake. Let me see in any of them are here. Mary kay maxwell. Janet ham pell of sos. Bill bunch of sos and fred Lewis of sos. Did you mean to sign up on item no. 29? No. Okay. I was wondering if -- how you were feeling about the reclassifying of the police department, but --. [Laughter]. Okay. I'm going to hold on to these cards and bring them back up later. Is there anybody that does want to speak on item no. 29. Motion has been made and seconded to approve items 28 and 29 on all three readings is there any discussion. Hearing none, all those in favor say aye. Motion carries. Item no. 33, I'll recognize Councilmember Slusher.

>>Slusher: Mayor, there is a zoning case, 6700 north 360, capital of Texas highway, passed four to one last time, me being the one. I'm not going to vote for it again. I was hoping I might win a few other votes over. I just think there's too much traffic in the area already. There is going to exacerbate that problem. This is going to cause -- this zoning would require a sewer pipe to be built under bull creek and just the development itself I think at this level and this close to the creek is unwise to grant this level of zoning. And the problems of the traffic and the threat to the water quality are access certify baited a high number of previously approved developments in the area.

>>Mayor Watson: there's no in one signed up to speak on item 33. Is there a motion on item no. 33.

>>Spelman: I move approval.

>>Mayor Watson: motion has been made by Councilmember Spelman to move approval.

>>Lewis: I'll second it for discussion.

>>Mayor Watson: seconded by Councilmember Lewis. Is there any discussion?

>>Lewis: yes, Mayor. Since you're saying that the traffic would be a problem to approve this zoning, what would -- and the sewage line on the creek, what zoning wouldn't require it?

>>Slusher: I would did he fly this zone?

>>Lewis: but what zoning wouldn't require it?

>>Slusher: according to the answers we got at the previous, it would not to sf --.

>>Lewis: sf two?

>>Slusher: right.

>>Lewis: would be, what, on site -- have an on site system?

>> we would have to get the water and wastewater department up here, but that's what they told us, not that it was on site, but that it wasn't required to go under the creek.

>>Griffith: Mayor, the idea of the sewer line going under the creek is I think something we need to pursue. Is there a staff person here that could tell us more about that?

>>Mayor Watson: miss Glasgow? Councilmember Lewis has some questions about the line under bull creek?

>>Griffith: is that going to happen.

>> Randy goss spoke to this a few weeks ago.

>> I'm not sure he had any specific items on the aelgd. So they're going to find him.

>>Mayor Watson: Council, if you don't mind, what we'll do is wait on item 33. Let us go to item no. 35. I'll recognize the Mayor pro tem.

>>Goodman: that was the one where we were talking about density, the existing density is rr. And so on first reading, we passed it and I said that I wasn't sure I could support that in the future. I do want to enable a more affordable home to be placed there at the rr density, so that would be I guess a substitute motion.

>>Mayor Watson: say that again.

>>Goodman: the mhco would be a rr density.

>> Mayor pro tem, did you ask a question?

>>Mayor Watson: no. Her -- she's take agriculture substitute motion on second and third readings that it would not be mhco with the conditions. Instead it would be rr density.

>>Goodman: well, I would have to go back on the conditions. I wasn't asking to change anything except the density. So let me --.

>>Mayor Watson: I'm just reading the whole thing.

>>Goodman: because I think there's right-of-way as part of the conditions, which I wasn't trying to change.

>> Mayor pro tem, are you trying to -- is your motion to zone the entire tract rr? rural residential?

>>Goodman: it already is.

>> It's kurbtly interim rural residential and so you're doing the interim and making it rural residential.

>>Goodman: no, manufactured homes at rr.

>>Mayor Watson: she wants to have mh zoning at rr --.

>> Okay. That would be one acre. That's typical under the ordinance. We'll craft the ordinance to that effect.

>>Mayor Watson: why don't we do that on second reading because that raises a couple of questions in my mind, something that confuse medicine about what that really does, so I'd like to be able to ask a few questions about that, but not necessarily right now. And if it's counsel's wish to grant that motion, that will allow the opportunity to ask about that. Plet ask this real quickly. If the motion that previously passed were to pass again, what would be the density?

>> the density we have is 3.5 units per acre. Now, you realize in this case your density is really controlled by the sos ordinance and the ordinance which controls impervious cover, how much you can have on the site. So while you have different controls on your zoning district, what you're basically establishing is that when you apply the standards under rural residential that your overall density, I don't think either way that you would exceed the 3.5 because the s.o.s. Ordinance impervious cover has been considered in the assumption of the 3.5 units per ache he.

>>Goodman: right now the rr zoning allows one unit per acre, right?

>> that's correct. And what we were talking about was manufactured housing, affordable housing. And I believe it was Mr. Bunch who mentioned that to up the density in this area was directly opposed to what we had been talking about. So this motion would keep the ability to have a more affordable home on the land without raising the density, but it keeps it at rr density, it does not intensify the density sorx thos one to an acre as opposed to 3.5 an acre.

>> That's a difference then in --.

>>Mayor Watson: how many acres is there?

>> this is a total of -- 51 acres. So you would end up with 51 under the rr density.

>>Mayor Watson: motion has been made to --.

>>Lewis: go ahead.

>>Mayor Watson: motion has been made, but there's no second on manufactured housing with rural residential density. Conditions would remain the same.

>>Griffith: I'll second it.

>>Mayor Watson: seconded by Councilmember Griffith. Councilmember Lewis? it's on second reading.

>> That's correct.

>>Lewis: ms. Glasgow, this petition, is it still enforced.

>> It is not enforceable because the property has an interim designation. It does not have the effect of the majority vote.

>>Lewis: all right.

>>Spelman: Alice, if this were zoned Mr, would it -- mh, would it be possible to build a single family house on it?

>> as long as it's not mobl. If it's built on a permanent foundation it's considered single family. You can have manufactured housing in single family two zoning or single family one zoning. It has to be on a permanent foundation where you cannot move it.

>>Spelman: so whether it's manufactured or built on site is immaterial. It's whether it's on a permanent foundation: what would the effect be on this motion should it pass on a restrictive covenant with the developer of the neighborhood?

>> I'm not aware of any facts at all because the covenants relate on to other matters. I could be wrong, but all it does it keep the other conditions, but reduce the number of units that would be realized on the property.

>>Spelman: I expect it would have a strong effect on the developer's ability to build a security gate, a clubhouse, a pool? so on?

>>Mayor Watson: I was just handed a card by the applicant and so I'll call on him and we can ask questions of him. Mr. Thrower? I apologize. Pronounce your name for me.

>> Ron t thrower, like throwing a ball.

>>Mayor Watson: if you would like to address this. We're thrown for a loop. If you would like to address this, then we'll ask you some questions.

>> Sure. I believe Mr. Spelman is correct when he's saying that some of these restrictions would have an economic impact on the property as well as the viability of the development at such a low density and still trying to keep it under the auspices of being affordable housing in southwest Austin. One of the reasons we are trying to keep the density as high as possible is to help to offset a lot of the costs associated not only with some items related to the restrictive could have napt, but also items -- covenant, but also items related to s.o.s.. There are other factors involved, cost factors involved, that being landscaping, there's fencing, there's another items that are in the code that are not addressed in the restrictive covenant that would make an impact on the property at one unit per acre as opposed to three and a half units per acre.

>>Spelman: Mayor, what are your projecting your lease costs per pad to be if you are allowed to develop at 3.5 per acre?

>> I believe we were looking at 275 per pad?

>>Spelman: per month.

>> Correct, yes.

>>Spelman: and if you had to develop at one unit per acre, that would be about a multiplication of 3.5 in that?

>> I believe that would be the layman's way of doing it. It may not be not quite that much oFAAfactor, but yes.

>>Spelman: if I triple it, it's something like $900 a month would be a rough estimate.

>> Just to rent the area to put your mobile home and that's on top of your payment for your mobile home.

>>Spelman: is there a market for mobile home pads at $900 a month?

>> I don't believe so. Not in the mobile home parks that I have talked to.

>>Spelman: give thaen you probably wouldn't be able to lease at $900 a month and get any takers or not get enough takers, what would you do in response? what would you do?

>> well, that's kind of a tough question putting me on the spot here.

>>Spelman: if you can't answer it, that's fine. If you don't know what you would do, that's perfectly fine.

>>Mayor Watson: that's what we call throwing a hard ball?

>> that's correct, Mayor. [Laughter]. [One moment, please]

>>Spelman: I think that you will be familiar with the issues that are on it. The neighborhood association was talking about basically they are very happy, as I understand it, with the restrictive covenant. They think that it's terrific, going to improve the ability of the neighborhood to get along with the mobile home complex, a lot. They are still concerned with three other issues contained in this letter, one of which is density. Which Mayor pro tem Goodman's motion would be addressing. In a way. The other two issues which I want to talk about next, since we are going to have to think about the density issue some. The location of the main entrance, some sort of a restriction on single-wide trailers. Are you familiar with this -- have you talked to the neighborhood association about these issues?

>> yes, we have talked.

>>Spelman: tell me about the main entrance. Wear hills road is currently a substandard City road. It's not paved and I believe what the neighborhood is trying to do here is trying to provide access out to wearhills road for the development, when wearhills road happens to punch through between old bee caves road and southwest parkway. Right now there's no right-of-way north -- well a little bit north of this property for warehills road. Right now our plan would be to have emergency access to wear wearhills, if they are to develop, we could certainly have an outlet or secondary access there to help disperse the traffic should they choose to go southwest parkway or 71.

>> If you could be sure the road would be developed, I have no idea whether you should be assured of such a thing or not, but if you could be assured within some reasonable time frame, if it would get punched through to southwest parkway, if that were the case, would you be able to develop a plan where the initial access would be from old bee cave, but then you would be accident switch from old bee caves to a ware warehills main entrance within a reasonable length of time.

>> I don't believe it's time as much as it is planning.

>> When you are trying to plan your park, as far as an apartment site, you are trying to put your amenities as close to the front as possible. We are going to plan that towards old bee caves road, having access to old weighhills road negates that without moving the amenity is.

>>Spelman: I know it would be very expensive to do, unless you could be sure it was going to be punched through immediately, then it would make more sense to put those amenities close to old bee cave, that would be where you would want to put the entrance.

>> That's correct.

>>Spelman: third questions on the restrictions on the single-wide trailers. They would like -- the preference would be for 100% of the trailers to be double widz. How do you feel about that?

>> we have some terrain issues on the property. There is in the land development codes and restrictions regarding the distance between the bottom of the trailer and the ground. When you are dealing with slopes, obviously, you are -- your single-widz are going to a shorter traverse than a double wide. Therefore lessening that restriction, I think that is the intent of travis to put it in as many double widz as possible, but to strictly limit it to just double wides could cause some development constraints.

>> Would you be willing to consider a percentage, required percentage of double wides?

>> yes.

>>Spelman: okay, you would be willing to talk with the neighborhood association about that over the next couple of weeks?

>> sure, we were just starting that out in the lobby.

>>Spelman: I will let you go back to it. Thanks.

>>Mayor Watson: any other discussion?

>>Goodman: yes.

>>Mayor Watson: Mayor pro tem, if you don't mind we have somebody else that just signed up.

>>Goodman: only one card.

>>Mayor Watson: that was going to be one of my questions, I noted some environmental folks in the audience.

>>Mayor Watson: now we have hans -- I have no idea what your last name is.

>> Erosher.

>> I am going to speak, I sent him out there to sign him up. I'm alison anderson. A member of the old bee caves neighborhood association. I just wanted to speak about the density or let you guys know that the -- I mean, I think I see a lot of -- of area for negotiate to the density. I think 3.5 is too much, and, you know, there's a lot between 1 and 3.5. So I would like to, you know, say that we would like it as close to, you know, one unit per acre as possible, but if that's not feasible, I would really like to try and work it out to where it's at least 2, 2.5 or as little as that. That's -- that's all. We will negotiate on the double wides.

>>Mayor Watson: thank you very much. Mayor pro tem?

>>Goodman: originally I was trying to do the same for this neighborhood as we did for the southeast neighborhood and we really worked out some good densities because of not necessarily compatibility, but because the proximity and future future potential that would come out of adding a particular density. To go to the rural residential density on this parcel worked out to just about what we did relatively for the other neighborhood. So that was why I thought that was an okay deal. The cost of the land remains the same. The cost of the house is lesser; therefore you de facto have more affordable housing in an area that people think of as being only high dollar housing. And then I do see a lot of environmental folks in the audience, I thought maybe this was one of their issues, too, I was going to ask if anybody signed up.

>>Mayor Watson: those are all of the people that have signed up to speak have spoken. The motion is mobile home with rr density. I will just say that last time I voted for first reading I voted for this, I was part of the five vote. I am going to vote against this one. I would vote for the previous one on second reading only to allow these groups to spend some more time talking based upon the questions that Councilmember Spelman asked and the statements that we got f